What do you like in a car?

[Atrusino]

Originally Posted by Bete Noir

Oversafe vehicles? Dear god.

Let me highlight the function and importance of modern-day safety features:

• ABS: Prevents locking up of the wheels under heavy braking, consequently allowing the car to be controllably manourvered under evasive action. Can prevent a crash in the first place.
• EBD: Loads braking most effectively through all wheels - reduces stopping distance. Can prevent a crash in the first place.
• TC: Controls power-down situations. Can prevent a crash in the first place.
• ESP: Provides individual braking to each wheel to correct under/oversteer. Keeps the driver in control. Can prevent a crash in the first place.

Then you have airbags, controlled crumple zones and no-intrusion areas.


All your driving skills are not going to save you in a shitty little unsafe car. You can see what happens in an "oversafe" car. I know which one I'd like to be in.

Please, don't give me any more of your idiocy.

And neither of the 5-star cars have engines intruding the cabin.

Uh huh..

Originally Posted by Bete Noir

...function and importance of modern-day safety features...

Modern day safety features that some in every modern car I've looked at. The biggest problem in my area is the number of people in my area that fall into these three catagories:
-Don't know how to drive
-Are used to different driving environments
-Consistently distracted (Cell phone, computer, make-up.. I've seen a guy reading his newspaper.

Maybe my area is unique in that it has a consistent stream of 'safe' cars. And as far as that engine bit.. If you wind up in a head-on collision in the freeway going 65MPH (Average for my town is 75MPH-80MPH in the 65MPH zone), there's no force in the world that's gonna stop a catastrophy unless you've got a 2-inch plate of somethin that god had to have made. Unless, as most cars are now being made, it is designed to 'fall apart' every which way. That could be more dangerous.

[Bete Noir]

Originally Posted by Atrusino

Maybe my area is unique in that it has a consistent stream of 'safe' cars. And as far as that engine bit.. If you wind up in a head-on collision in the freeway going 65MPH (Average for my town is 75MPH-80MPH in the 65MPH zone), there's no force in the world that's gonna stop a catastrophy unless you've got a 2-inch plate of somethin that god had to have made. Unless, as most cars are now being made, it is designed to 'fall apart' every which way. That could be more dangerous.

Of course its going to be a catastrophe, but a safe car is going to limit the damage. Just have a look at the crash test photos above. Its the difference between a painful death and a comparitively simple broken bone. Don't bring excessive speeding into this - thats the stupidty that your townspeople choose to have.

Yes, safe cars are designed to crumble. In a crash, there are 3 collisions:

1. Car with object (be it a wall or another car)
2. Occupants inside car colliding with the interior of the car itself
3. Internal organs colliding with other organs and the body's structural components

Energy is always conserved. So when a crash happens, that energy will need to be dispersed among the 3 collisions - thats physics, and you can't change that. Its much better for the 1st collision to absorb all that energy rather than than the second two. Its much better for the car to crush, crumble and break, instead of it sending all that energy directly into your face.

And that two inch plate that god put there is definately not going to save anyone.

[Jackthehammer]

The Landwind was actually banned from Holland after that crashtest..

Even if that guy on the phone isn't paying attention and runs a stopsign or something, the ABS on your vehicle and you paying attention can prevent you crashing in to his side! Without it, you would've slammed the brakes and slid right into the other car because your wheels locked up.

Oversafe vehicles.. c'mon man It's all there to prevent the accident or minimalize the damage/injury.

as most cars are now being made, it is designed to 'fall apart' every which way. That could be more dangerous.

They're called crumple zones They are fitted there on purpose to protect YOU!

I know other people are always the problem, so what's best to do? make sure your own car stops the best way possible and is gonna protect you in case of an accident, regardless who's fault it is.

[Huffardo]

He has a point in all that nonsense, the safety hysteria of today has gone a bit far. Not that I'd want decades back to a time without disk brakes, crumple zones and seatbelts, but a dozen of airbags just seems to give a reason for people to drive even worse since they feel invincible.

BTW, some safety tech actually can be dangerous in some cases, such as ABS that increases braking distances to multiples of what it might otherwise be. Which can be painful if you need to stop in time to avoid that truck which is blocking the road, or a motorway crash...
[Tested on a track with about a dozen cars, all ABS cars had much longer braking distances than even the lousiest non-ABS one with faulty brakes. Needless to say, the BX had the shortest stopping distance of them all, since its ABS system needs some work to function again and I can't be bothered to fix it...]

[Atrusino]

Originally Posted by Bete Noir

Of course its going to be a catastrophe, but a safe car is going to limit the damage. Just have a look at the crash test photos above. Its the difference between a painful death and a comparitively simple broken bone. Don't bring excessive speeding into this - thats the stupidty that your townspeople choose to have.

The stupidity has rarely been the result of my townsfolk. The problem is that we have a slew of people from every corner of the world who have all developed different driving habbits and developed a nack for consistently driving 10MPH over the speed limit, even on surfave streets. Another pair of problems is:
-The kids who had daddy buy them their $20,000 car and have no respect for anyone else because (as below) they think they're invincible
-Imigrants (illegal ones) constantly drive quickly to avoid authorities or slowly to look innocent.. This creates a dangerous mix of speeds.
On another note, not everyone here can afford a Renault or a Volkswagon.. Generally (yes, I'm generalizing), 5-stars means you're gonna pay for a 5-star vehicle.

Originally Posted by Huffardo

He has a point in all that nonsense, the safety hysteria of today has gone a bit far. Not that I'd want decades back to a time without disk brakes, crumple zones and seatbelts, but a dozen of airbags just seems to give a reason for people to drive even worse since they feel invincible.

'a reason for people to drive even worse since they feel invincible'
Aye, that's one of the bigger problems in ym area right now is young kids who don't care to respect the laws because tey feel they're above them and they can't be hurt. I went through that phase when I was younger, but never in a vehicle. The road is one place where you can rest assured: If you lose respect for it, it'll kill you.

[Bete Noir]

Originally Posted by Atrusino

The stupidity has rarely been the result of my townsfolk. The problem is that we have a slew of people from every corner of the world who have all developed different driving habbits and developed a nack for consistently driving 10MPH over the speed limit, even on surfave streets. Another pair of problems is:
-The kids who had daddy buy them their $20,000 car and have no respect for anyone else because (as below) they think they're invincible
-Imigrants (illegal ones) constantly drive quickly to avoid authorities or slowly to look innocent.. This creates a dangerous mix of speeds.
On another note, not everyone here can afford a Renault or a Volkswagon.. Generally (yes, I'm generalizing), 5-stars means you're gonna pay for a 5-star vehicle.

I'm not going to get into a battle over driving habits. I'm just here to defend the importance of car safety.

What you've just said just goes to show how important car safety is.

No, not everyone can afford a 5-star car. But the fact is that today, safety isn't expensive. I'm not familiar with the American car market, but even compact cars come with multiple airbags, ABS, TC and ESP.

But in regards to this discussion, that doesn't matter.

What matters is that a safe car is important, and your comments about "oversafe" vehicles is pure and utter garbage.

[Atrusino]

All I'm tryin to say is that these 'Modern Standards' come in a vast majority of new cars in my area. It's simply not a concern. Perhaps this is because of some of my countries laws, perhaps not. I do follow ya though. Perhaps I phrased what I originally said wrong, but regardless the only reason I persued this topic was because I don't like bein called an idiot. I do apologize if this argument was a product of my short temper.

-Atrusino

[Jackthehammer]

Originally Posted by Huffardo

He has a point in all that nonsense, the safety hysteria of today has gone a bit far. Not that I'd want decades back to a time without disk brakes, crumple zones and seatbelts, but a dozen of airbags just seems to give a reason for people to drive even worse since they feel invincible.

BTW, some safety tech actually can be dangerous in some cases, such as ABS that increases braking distances to multiples of what it might otherwise be. Which can be painful if you need to stop in time to avoid that truck which is blocking the road, or a motorway crash...
[Tested on a track with about a dozen cars, all ABS cars had much longer braking distances than even the lousiest non-ABS one with faulty brakes. Needless to say, the BX had the shortest stopping distance of them all, since its ABS system needs some work to function again and I can't be bothered to fix it...]

Non-ABS is only better IF the driver knows how to fully utilize his brakes without locking them up. 99% of the people will slam it with all their force and lock up the wheels, which results in a much longer stopping distance. ABS has a sensitivity, some cars cut in too early, other will let you brake very very hard.. You'r right, if an ABS system cuts in very early you be better off with normal brakes.

Maybe in a stopping test with some cones on a closed course does it make ABS look bad, but don't forget that in case of an accident, you don't have time to think about with to do with the brakes. Let's just say ABS in the Probe already saved me from a world of trouble about 3 times in one year.

[HairySheep]

ive never locked the brakes on my Legacy (no ABS) before in an emergancy, but its almost impossible not to lock them on ice, no matter how soft i tried to stop, it would start slowing and then lock up and i went straight through a few intersections at about 5mph, there was no traffic so i wasnt worried too much but it was a red light

but i can slam the brakes on my moms Focus and its will stop dead from 30mph in about 10feet on ice
our Explorer has ABS only in the rear (or was it the front?), but it doesnt work, so it slides everywhere