FileFront Forums - M13/40 ..

FileFront Forums (http://forums.filefront.com/)

- Forgotten Hope General Yib-Yab (Off Topic) (http://forums.filefront.com/forgotten-hope-general-discussion-483/)

- - M13/40 .. (http://forums.filefront.com/forgotten-hope-general-discussion/362508-m13-40-a.html)

it toke 1 grant 75mm cannon hit from side and almost no damage, ... well, i suspect there's some problem with the armour on that tank.

AFAIK now tank rounds will only destroy or cause serious damage to other tanks if they hit a vital spot... IE, turret, ammunition compartment, engine, tracks (I'm assuming).

Either that or it was a server/client problem.

The Grants canon has been changed to the actual 75mm M2/M3 gun, not the Sherman's gun, so it is a bit weaker now, so 1s1k to the side of the M13/40 aren't as likely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N24Reporter (Post 4346441)

The Grants canon has been changed to the actual 75mm M2/M3 gun, not the Sherman's gun, so it is a bit weaker now, so 1s1k to the side of the M13/40 aren't as likely.

you don't understand me, it only takes 20% damage, well...i am the M13 to be shot, and we are very close.

not dying might be acceptable from a side hit, but 20% damage is just... ridiculous.

I've had it happen before, like a Grant deflecting a Pz4F2 shot to the side. It seems as if on random chances the armour can sometimes deflect shells.

That noted, the M13/40 is a beast.

I've yet to use it, but I notice that the anti-tank gun version of the fiat seems to take hits well.

yes i also think booth tanks were quiet well armored specially the front of the semovente
but i m still not so happy with their side, rear, top armor
something seems wrong

I was surprised to see how hardy this was as it took 3 direct side hits from my Stuart before even starting to smoke. After that driver bailed out so it must have hurted it badly.

Now I need to get my hands on it so I can myself see if this is really so good as it seems to be. When it shot my to front I almost lost half of my HP (I was in Stuart) so its cannon seems good too.

the like the 47mm gun, it doesnt hurt the grant like i'd like , but its a flat shooter and is fairly accurate. the sights are great too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Mudra (Post 4346472)

That noted, the M13/40 is a beast.

Finally, a powerfull Tano Tank.. (Tano = Italian)

*Kicks Fiat*

Leave poor fiat alone! With his new shiny gun it can challenge even some real tanks like Stuart and maybe harm it somehow!

I tested it againts Grant and by shooting in right spot I managed to kill it. I needed to spent 4 and half magazines to accomplish this great feat. :D

Sevonte+Grant=Circle jerk of annoyance when they get close. The M14 deflected 4 2 pounder shots to the rear, top of engine, back of turret.

Wait a sec, have you used the Fiat in Mareth? IT PWNS!!!!

Fav tanks:

PzIII
FIAT !!!!!!!!!
Stuart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by torenico (Post 4347294)

*Kicks Fiat*

All Italian tanks in FH2 are Fiats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIGHTNING [NL] (Post 4347650)

All Italian tanks in FH2 are Fiats.

yeah ¬¬

All the Italian tanks were Fiats, (Dunno about the Semovente...),almost everithing in Italy was Fiat... but on the FH2 Names, appears "Carro Armato", M13, etc... so when i say Fiat, im saying the Fiat who have a Auto Cannon wich is my Fav gun in FH2..

*Hugs Fiat*

Ah, Carro = Car , Armato = Armado = Armoured.

Its a Armoured Car. A Strange Mix of Armoured Car and Tank.

Did the Italians get any Medium Tank? and the Standard Tank when Italy change side, was the Sherman?

Quote:

Originally Posted by torenico (Post 4347669)

All the Italian tanks were Fiats, (Dunno about the Semovente...)

Well, actually they were usually designed by Ansaldo and built by FIAT (because Ansaldo lacked the necessary industrial capacity to series-build them). The semoventi were built upon existing tank chassis in the same factories which built the tanks, so they had the same Ansaldo development - FIAT manufacturing.

In Italy the tanks are usually just called by their designation (so just "M13/40" or "L6/40") or rarely "Ansaldo-FIAT", but for some reason they're usually called "Fiat" in English literature (don't ask me why, no one calls a Panther a "MAN Panther" for example). The L6/40 is the only one that might deserve to be called "Ansaldo L6/40" because at first it was privately developed by Ansaldo for export, while all other tanks and assault guns were commissioned by the army.

Quote:

Originally Posted by torenico (Post 4347669)

Ah, Carro = Car , Armato = Armado = Armoured.

Its a Armoured Car. A Strange Mix of Armoured Car and Tank.

Er... no. ;) It means
Carro = literally "wagon" (but in military terms it means "tank" - or "chariot" if you're talking about 1000 B.C. or so)
Armato = something like "equipped with weapons" (an adjective... like "armoured" means "equipped with armour")

Armoured car on the other hand is "autoblinda" (shortened to A.B., like in AB 40, AB 41, etc.) which just means "armored (= -blinda) car (= auto[mobile]-).

Quote:

Originally Posted by torenico (Post 4347669)

Did the Italians get any Medium Tank?

In the late 30s Italy reorganized their tank designations in 3 groups:
L- series: (L for "leggero"="light") L3/33 and its large number of variants and related designs; and the L6/40
M- series: (M for "medio"="medium") M11/39; M13/40 (and its upgrades M14/41 and M15/42)
P- series: (P for "pesante"="heavy") P26/40

The first number (before the "/") represents the approximate weight (in tons) of the empty tank - so for example the L6/40 weighted somewhat more than 6 tons, the M13/40 somewhat more than 13 tons, etc. This first number was removed in 1942 or 1943, so for example the "L6/40" was renamed "L40", etc. The "P26/40" was delivered after this change so its more properly known as "P40".
The italian "classes" (light/medium/heavy) were defined in the 1930s by actual weight alone (not operational use), so these designations quickly became obsolete.
International weight "classes" on the other hand are assigned more for the tanks' operational use than sheer weight; for example, the Stuart and the Pz.II are both considered light tanks, but the Stuart weighted about 15 tons, approximately twice the Pz.II's weight (7 tons).

So, yes, Italy had "medium tanks", but most of them weighted less of the most common allied light tank (the Stuart). Anyway, they were actually used as medium tanks (i.e., for engaging any sort of targets, including enemy tanks). The heaviest tanks used by Italian forces IIRC were Panzer III (22 tons) and P40 (26 tons), both used by RSI (the Axis government after 1943). Keep in mind that a Sherman weighted about 30 tons...

BTW, the second number is the year the design was approved. So for example, the L3/33 is a 1933 design, the M11/39 is a 1939 design, etc. Most of the time, anyway a year or more passed before the first tanks were delivered, so for example the P40, while approved in 1940, was only delivered in 1943.

Quote:

Originally Posted by torenico (Post 4347669)

and the Standard Tank when Italy change side, was the Sherman?

Italy did not receive any Shermans until 1947. For the most part, Italian co-belligerent (allied) forces kept using old equipment (they received allied-style uniforms and some planes, though). Allied Italian forces were only deployed in some parts of Jugoslavia and Greece as garrison troops anyway, so they had no need for new tanks.

Blasted 5 Grant 75mm rounds in the side of that thing before it went down...

Looks like the Tiger has made its appearance in the form of a Fiat =p

One thing I learned in Bardia: It takes a M13\40 to defeat a M13\40...

Quote:

Originally Posted by rattovolante (Post 4347895)

don't ask me why, no one calls a Panther a "MAN Panther" for example

Yeah, but a lot of people call the P08 "Luger". Don't ask me why either. It has become popular.

The whole conversation on the M13/40 seemed wrong so I looked it up.

The M13/40 has 25mm armor on the upper hull sides angled slightly off vertical. Lower hull is vertical. The front hull is about 40mm angled 30deg from vertical.

A US 75mm M2 cannon firing even the crappy M68AP round should have no problems killing a M13/40 from front or sides.

The M3 Stuart and Brit 2lbr both should easily penetrate it as well.

Is it intended for the Italian tanks to be field modified with jury rigged sandbag and tank track armor?

I have seen Semovente 75's and M11/39's and M13/40's with jury rigged armor add ons.

If the M13/40 was so good why didnt the Italians win in Africa? :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by rattovolante

The heaviest tanks used by Italian forces IIRC were Panzer III (22 tons) and P40 (26 tons), both used by RSI (the Axis government after 1943).

Neither the P26/40 or the Panzer III were used by the RSI, all of the P26/40s were used by the Germans, the majority didn't have engines and so their turrets were employed in fortifications. In May 1943 the Italians recieved 36 German armoured vehicles (12x Pz.Kpfw.III Ausf.N, 12x Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.H and 12x StuG.III Ausf.G), these equipped the Armoured Division M (really a strenghened brigade. They had only been used for training by the time of the surrender and were confiscated by the Germans.

Thanks for the Info, i love everything from the Italians, when i read all the post, i start HOI2 and play as italian, im wonder, as heavy tank it has a Tiger Pic.. but it has different names.

I wonder if Any M13/40 faced a Tiger when Italy Surrenders...

Grant shot to the front of a PzIII = phail :P Speaking of deflecting, anyone noticed bofors rounds deflecting off planes and enemy paratroopers? D: I think it still does damage, but it looks funny when it deflects :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Lebowski (Post 4348000)

Blasted 5 Grant 75mm rounds in the side of that thing before it went down...

Looks like the Tiger has made its appearance in the form of a Fiat =p

hehe except the M13/40 don't got an 88 mm gun on it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by silian (Post 4348230)

Neither the P26/40 or the Panzer III were used by the RSI

you're right... why I thought they only took back the Pz.IV and stugs? weird.

so did the M13/40 really that sturdy...?5 side hits from grant?...

A grant is surprisingly easy to kill when you are in this thing. All you have to do is keep moving in really close circles around the grant and hit it up the arse every now and then.

The M13/40 had the armor of a light tank and the weight of a light tank. It had a pretty decent gun for its weight class and was notoriously unreliable.

The M13/40 should not need 5 Grant rounds to knock out. One AP round from anything 37mm or larger to teh side should knock the health way down if not kill it. A second shot should kill it.

The PzIII's facing the M3 Grant had applique armor panels added to the upper hull front equaling 70mm. IIRC gun manlet was upgraded to 70mm as well.

The Grants wimpy low velocity (2000fps) 75mm AP round was having a good day if it penetrated 60mm of armor.

Any chance the user was firing HE accidently instead of AP rounds? HE would not do much to it, but one or two AP' should ahve killed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anlushac11 (Post 4349080)

Any chance the user was firing HE accidently instead of AP rounds? HE would not do much to it, but one or two AP' should ahve killed it.

very obviously no, i see that too many times for it to be a glitch/lag/accident, the grant have a hard time killing those M13/40 while crusader I don't...(the 2 pdr gun.)

the m13/40 armos (and the semovente as well) seen to ahve some armor material issues
both dont take any damage from AT-Rifles (and they shoudl be destroable by these) and the grant 75mm gun is somewhat "useless" against it.
2pdr does just fine most times 2 shots kill it but oftn they get defelcted.

a tip until the next patch comes:
if in a grant and you see a fiat on long range
use your small turret with the 37mm gun it kill the m13/40 with 2-3 hits and is more efficient than the big 75mm maingun.

afaik we tested this in betatesting and all worked well but something went wrong in packing the new patch and some stuff fell through the cracks :(

Fought a grant today and it got me in one shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheomesh (Post 4350213)

Fought a grant today and it got me in one shot.

hmm, the main gun or the 37mm?

(btw, it seemed front shot might kill with 1 shot)

Great now that you "nerfed" Stuart back to its normal state we got this über italian fiat to replace it! :D

Woot enjoy it while you can boys, after this the fiat will be running to the hills.

let me investigate the armour...

ah, finally in the testing ground, boring driving for long...

Spoiler:

TEST 1: it seemed a part of side armour is working well though(look at my aim)

Spoiler:

TEST 2: front armour, it takes 3 shots, yes, 3 shots.

Spoiler:

TEST 3, front tracks. ( i only show my aim, takes 2 shots)

Spoiler:

TEST 4, side armour( takes 5 shots, look at my ammo count)(i also tested the lower parts, it seemed only the area in test 1 is 1 shot kill)

Spoiler:

i haven't tested the rear armour yet...

i run this test by conquest mode .... in my own computer...

Wow now we know its a tiger in disquise. :p

except it cannot kill grant in front (need 7 shot at very special place...near the tracks)

also the side is almost impossible to kill (didn't test, but many shots go in with hit indicator without explosion.)

only the backs takes 2 hit...

well, it seemed to be fair though :p...

edit: refer to the lower post how many shots it need...

You can kill the grant from the sides, you just have to aim for the little side port/trap door.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [FtN|GT] Die Happy (Post 4350211)

a tip until the next patch comes:
if in a grant and you see a fiat on long range
use your small turret with the 37mm gun it kill the m13/40 with 2-3 hits and is more efficient than the big 75mm maingun.

did the 37mm gun reload faster?...if yes, thanks for tip.(not sure...)

The M13/40 has about 10mm too strong armour all around, but it will be fixed in the next patch.

Noes! Don't take it away from us! D:

UH, 3 shots from the Crusader Mk1 to destroy that toy?....

Seriusly, that tank is a beast, and i cant stop using the Crusader or the Valentine...

AFAIK You can't do armor test with empty tanks. The results will be compareable, but not realistic. Empty tanks have higher armor values than player controlled tanks. You will need more shots to destroy an empty tank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dukat (Post 4357723)

This makes no sense :?

it makes no sense because it's total nonsense

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheomesh (Post 4359863)

This makes no sense :?

No spall hitting crew members perhaps ;)?

:lurk:
Hey Lobo, don't leave me in the rain here. They're making jokes about me.
This is all supposed to be in your head, isn't it?:faq:

You rang?

No, seriously, I don't know if that's true, I think it doesn't make sense but I am not a coding guru, who knows?

don't anger the devs or they make sherman firefly armour 50mm thicker and bye bye to all german tankers.