Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I know in FH2 one can still spot with binoculars, but I would like to hear what wisdom is behind the changing of the old BF2 spotting system. I did a search and could not find the answer.

In FH2 I have found spotting at long ranges seems a bit buggy. Even if one manually selects the type of target, the position shown on the map can come up far too short. (Try spotting west from the tower on the map with the mosque, for example.) It's also awkward to do at close ranges.

I know in vanilla BF2 the whole team hears "such and such spotted" via radio, and I like how in FH2 only those in voice range hear the caller. But I just think that making people have to use the binocular kit to spot for others reduces the chances of effective teamwork.

Many newcomers to FH2 seem confused and a bit disappointed by this system. I for one thought spotting was a great innovation in BF2. It made teamwork easier and overcome some of the limitations of a limited FOV on a screen, vs real life with peripheral vision and squad hand signals etc.

What do others think? Do the devs stand behind their decision to remove the regular spotting system (without binocs)? Was it done only to make the spotter plane useful?

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I hated how annoying and spammy BF2's spotting system was.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

Yes, the FH2 team have limited the "enemy spotted" radio spam (to voice range) which is great! I agree that is good. But should everyone be able to spot without binoculars, that is the question?

As it is I find myself hearing "enemy spotted" constantly in FH2, but hardly ever seeing anything on the minimap - which is even worse.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

It was done as to remove the constant spotting spam and to remove this bloody arcade feature that lets you track an enemy by just spotting in the general direction of his position. Nothing beats immersion to death like 64 players spotting each other to see where the other guy is hiding.

Plus it was done to upgrade the worth of a squadleader. Without his staying back and spotting things and playing as a spawnpoint, squads would be useless, so why join them at all?

And yes, it upgrades the Spotterplane as well.

Hope this answers your question. :)

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I fully support the removal of the spotting. In BF2, you would spot anyone you saw, because they'd show up on minimap and you'd know exactly what they were doing after they left your field of vision (if they were waiting behind that corner for you to show up).
Removing the BF2's spotting system gave a boost to teamwork, not the other way around.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I think at least more kits should have binoculars (or some other means of making enemies appear on the map.) With the limited spotting system it feels like there should be some other way of indicating where the enemy is. Maybe smoke signal grenades (did they have these in ww2?) that are visible to aircraft?

It would be interesting to see how often people spot if EVERYONE had binocs.

How can you say this? A tool was removed that allowed players to help other players. I'm pretty sure that everyone ends up more lost overall. Yes, spamming spot to find people you can't see is bad; but not having any way to tell the guys next to you where the bad guy youre looking at is, is worse.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

If everyone had binoculars, then the point would be pretty much lost. There is no one uber-kit in FH2, every kit has its minuses, deal with it.

There is a way and that is called VOIP. If you don't want to use that, then type if you must. What I meant by better teamwork is that you have to have people dedicated to spotting. Everyone cannot spot, thus you need people to do the spotting for you and you need to have teamwork for that to happen. Following your logic, the shock paddles should make it back to the game, because they allowed players to help other players ;)

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I like what FH2 did with spotting BUT as OP mentioned its not working correctly and often puts your spot in wrong place. I have tried this out many times and if you want to get working spots you need to aim much higher than target you are trying to spot. This is just wierd and reduces effectiveness of this feature. I would like to see that changed so it would spot what I point at without that stupid "bullet-drop-like-thing" as its now in longer distances.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I only put that forward as something to think about. I'm saying that it would be interesting to see how many people would even bother switching to binocs to spot if everyone had them.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

Yeah, it is sometimes hard to understand where the spotting "crosshairs" are on the binoculars.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

Theres a difference between increasing the NEED for teamwork and actually increasing teamwork. Making this change increases the need for teamwork, since you cannot do as much by yourself; however, the AMOUNT of teamwork hasn't changed, since other people could (and did) spot for "you" in vBF2. There needs to be more ways to satisfy this need (that is, knowing where the enemy is.)
Straw man. I was only refuting your point that limiting spotting aids teamwork, not saying that it should be added because it allows more teamwork. Plus, theres a big difference between modifying a gameplay element and removing it completely.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

Welcome to 1940, a time before the Landwarrior system.

Binocular spotting aint going no where. It improves teamwork by actually rewarding a team with a solid recon corps. If you ever get a chance to play with a group of guys dedicated to calling out enemies, youl see how much difference that teamwork makes.
Unlike bf2, where its just a feature. Its always there. Its not teamwork, its just part of the game. You can always see enemies on the hud, because theres always 20 guys pressing q while shooting at stuff.

We are aware of the range bug of the binocs, which we can hopefully fix with the next patch.
And FYI, most vehicles have radios and can spot targets as well. Its not just binocs.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I would think this is more due to UAVs. You can't say that there aren't people who spot solely for the purpose of helping other people find targets.

On a related note, with the long ranges in this mod you cannot actually hear the sounds of gunfire from a distance... it would help if the sound distance was increased to help locate the enemy.
I am aware of this, unfortunately if I'm in the tank there is less need for spotting since I have the power to kill the target.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

Oh yeah I think also ATGs can spot tanks. At least I did in Aberdeen while using that Pak38 at western village. That made me think that maybe tanks can also spot and it seems I was right.

Good to hear you are trying to get rid of that bug in binoc-spotting.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I have not played BF2 in ages, the last time I had the chance to play with its free-for-all spotting system was with BGF...and I thought my brain was exploding

No chance we change our spam-free system, don't even ask

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I prefer it as it is. It gives the squad leader and recon class extra use and requires them to put their specialization to good use like the other classes have to.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

Thanks for everyone's response to my original post, including the dev feedback on their reasoning. I was very glad to learn that tanks and AT guns can spot! A revelation to me. Fantastic. I shall spread the word.

As for radio spam, doesn't everyone hate it? But I am still hearing heaps of it with regard to spotting in FH2. It's just that nothing shows up on the minimap, so it serves only to confuse and annoy. Still that is on public servers, and it's early days.

Interesting that no-one commented on how awkward binocs are to use at close range. Generally, with the bugs at longer ranges and the awkward close range use I find binoculars only work well at medium range - which is just the range where a spotter gets their head very regularly blown off by a rifle. Hopefully the long-spot bug will not be too difficult to fix, because I am giving my team misinformation as a spotter right now. It is only at long range that binocs can be used really safely and as they were used (I imagine) IRL.

Interesting that no-one commented about the spotting for friends feature compensating somewhat for the lack of peripheral vision...(?) On public servers, I feel like I am in more of a deathmatch in some ways. I feel like I am playing FH2 alone, only seeing in a narrow field of view in front. This is made a bit worse by the fact that friendly name tags appear briefly - which is great for realism and reducing BF2 screen clutter, but also harder for co-ordinating teamwork.

VOIP SQUAD:
"Who's that over there?"
"Where?"
"By the house next to the tower."
"Oh it's me."
"No. The other house. The one to the ummmmm.. south- west of the tower."
"Ummmmm. That's me."
"Well there's a guy coming up behind you...."
But he's already turned one way.
"No to your left.."
BLAM..your squadmate is dead.

I don't know about anyone else, but I hear messages like this on VOIP all the time (if I hear anything). So much time is being wasted trying to communicate_where_something is relative to someone else, rather than what we can do about it. Possibly I need to learn faster ways of communicating with voice..?

But in real life if you are in close visual range with your squad (eg. city fighting), one would use hand signals in a flash. The argument that in WWII they didn't have the Landwarrior system doesn't quite hold up in every case. They still had good eyes and hands and well practiced routines for signaling each other. In the BF2 engine we don't have them, and to my mind the spotting system made up for them.

What I might suggest, which is probably not even possible with the BF2 engine is this: spotting by anyone, but only at close range <30-50m, with no text or radio "enemy spotted" spam. Anyway just as idea to put forward..

I understand the devs are wise, and on an experienced team, interested in teamwork, this FH2 spotting feature they have implemented would work well. It is one of those things that hopefully on public servers will improve over time..

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

you are right about he part with seeing friendly vehicles nametags on close range
that sometimes bothers me too, but i dont know what to do about it either.
i often yell at people that there is something coming up their flank/rear and you just can hope you yell at the right one. most times i try to say something like : " there is a pzIII driving left of that grant in the west , watch out ". sometimes it helps. but what really helps if you know who is where but that close communication doesent really work on ingame VOIP, only in Teamspeak or something like that ...

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I like it as is. Would it be possible to give a spotter some sort of bonus point if the target they designate is killed in a reasonable amount of time after they spot it? To reward the spotter with points, which is a lot more effective in reinforcing teamwork then giving them a warm fuzzy feeling about it.

I have played Scout/Beobatcher almost exclusively and call out targets a lot, and it helps. I had no idea vehicles could do it too, though.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

Giving points for spotting sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe one point for every 20 or 30 spots you make. I hope this is possible with the engine. There are not enough spotters on the public servers now. I hope the bug will soon be dealt with. I think it is the most annoying i recognized till now.
I think you should allow squadleaders to spot without pulling out the binoculars. It takes to long in closequarter combat.
Is it possible to have different objects displaced on the minimap for different players. The you could show objects spottet by normal soldiers on the minimaps of all those who are within hearing distance to the spotting soldier. This would be a kind of compensation for not having handsigns.

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I agree, perhaps someone her can answer to that?
with the "I" like symbol, where on it is the "crosshair", I've had troubles with this when spotting for artillery, I have 'used' the middle of it. But I'm not sure.
can anyone confirm this please?

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?
 

I realy like it, to be a spotter, aspecialy when you see the arty gets a bulls-eye.
but then again its been a bit frustrated/embaresed to see myself ending up at the bottom of the score-list.;)