4109159

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?

December 22nd, 2007 08:08 AM

Theres a difference between increasing the NEED for teamwork and actually increasing teamwork. Making this change increases the need for teamwork, since you cannot do as much by yourself; however, the AMOUNT of teamwork hasn't changed, since other people could (and did) spot for "you" in vBF2. There needs to be more ways to satisfy this need (that is, knowing where the enemy is.)
Straw man. I was only refuting your point that limiting spotting aids teamwork, not saying that it should be added because it allows more teamwork. Plus, theres a big difference between modifying a gameplay element and removing it completely.

4109168

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?

December 22nd, 2007 08:14 AM

Welcome to 1940, a time before the Landwarrior system.

Binocular spotting aint going no where. It improves teamwork by actually rewarding a team with a solid recon corps. If you ever get a chance to play with a group of guys dedicated to calling out enemies, youl see how much difference that teamwork makes.
Unlike bf2, where its just a feature. Its always there. Its not teamwork, its just part of the game. You can always see enemies on the hud, because theres always 20 guys pressing q while shooting at stuff.

We are aware of the range bug of the binocs, which we can hopefully fix with the next patch.
And FYI, most vehicles have radios and can spot targets as well. Its not just binocs.

4109189

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?

December 22nd, 2007 08:30 AM

I would think this is more due to UAVs. You can't say that there aren't people who spot solely for the purpose of helping other people find targets.

On a related note, with the long ranges in this mod you cannot actually hear the sounds of gunfire from a distance... it would help if the sound distance was increased to help locate the enemy.
I am aware of this, unfortunately if I'm in the tank there is less need for spotting since I have the power to kill the target.

4109194

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?

December 22nd, 2007 08:35 AM

Oh yeah I think also ATGs can spot tanks. At least I did in Aberdeen while using that Pak38 at western village. That made me think that maybe tanks can also spot and it seems I was right.

Good to hear you are trying to get rid of that bug in binoc-spotting.

4109243

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?

December 22nd, 2007 09:14 AM

I have not played BF2 in ages, the last time I had the chance to play with its free-for-all spotting system was with BGF...and I thought my brain was exploding

No chance we change our spam-free system, don't even ask

4109249

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?

December 22nd, 2007 09:20 AM

I prefer it as it is. It gives the squad leader and recon class extra use and requires them to put their specialization to good use like the other classes have to.

4110272

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?

December 22nd, 2007 09:43 PM

Thanks for everyone's response to my original post, including the dev feedback on their reasoning. I was very glad to learn that tanks and AT guns can spot! A revelation to me. Fantastic. I shall spread the word.

As for radio spam, doesn't everyone hate it? But I am still hearing heaps of it with regard to spotting in FH2. It's just that nothing shows up on the minimap, so it serves only to confuse and annoy. Still that is on public servers, and it's early days.

Interesting that no-one commented on how awkward binocs are to use at close range. Generally, with the bugs at longer ranges and the awkward close range use I find binoculars only work well at medium range - which is just the range where a spotter gets their head very regularly blown off by a rifle. Hopefully the long-spot bug will not be too difficult to fix, because I am giving my team misinformation as a spotter right now. It is only at long range that binocs can be used really safely and as they were used (I imagine) IRL.

Interesting that no-one commented about the spotting for friends feature compensating somewhat for the lack of peripheral vision...(?) On public servers, I feel like I am in more of a deathmatch in some ways. I feel like I am playing FH2 alone, only seeing in a narrow field of view in front. This is made a bit worse by the fact that friendly name tags appear briefly - which is great for realism and reducing BF2 screen clutter, but also harder for co-ordinating teamwork.

VOIP SQUAD:
"Who's that over there?"
"Where?"
"By the house next to the tower."
"Oh it's me."
"No. The other house. The one to the ummmmm.. south- west of the tower."
"Ummmmm. That's me."
"Well there's a guy coming up behind you...."
But he's already turned one way.
"No to your left.."
BLAM..your squadmate is dead.

I don't know about anyone else, but I hear messages like this on VOIP all the time (if I hear anything). So much time is being wasted trying to communicate_where_something is relative to someone else, rather than what we can do about it. Possibly I need to learn faster ways of communicating with voice..?

But in real life if you are in close visual range with your squad (eg. city fighting), one would use hand signals in a flash. The argument that in WWII they didn't have the Landwarrior system doesn't quite hold up in every case. They still had good eyes and hands and well practiced routines for signaling each other. In the BF2 engine we don't have them, and to my mind the spotting system made up for them.

What I might suggest, which is probably not even possible with the BF2 engine is this: spotting by anyone, but only at close range <30-50m, with no text or radio "enemy spotted" spam. Anyway just as idea to put forward..

I understand the devs are wise, and on an experienced team, interested in teamwork, this FH2 spotting feature they have implemented would work well. It is one of those things that hopefully on public servers will improve over time..

4110287

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?

December 22nd, 2007 09:58 PM

you are right about he part with seeing friendly vehicles nametags on close range
that sometimes bothers me too, but i dont know what to do about it either.
i often yell at people that there is something coming up their flank/rear and you just can hope you yell at the right one. most times i try to say something like : " there is a pzIII driving left of that grant in the west , watch out ". sometimes it helps. but what really helps if you know who is where but that close communication doesent really work on ingame VOIP, only in Teamspeak or something like that ...

4110413

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?

December 23rd, 2007 12:29 AM

I like it as is. Would it be possible to give a spotter some sort of bonus point if the target they designate is killed in a reasonable amount of time after they spot it? To reward the spotter with points, which is a lot more effective in reinforcing teamwork then giving them a warm fuzzy feeling about it.

I have played Scout/Beobatcher almost exclusively and call out targets a lot, and it helps. I had no idea vehicles could do it too, though.

4114237

Re: Spotting only with binoculars in FH2 : is it wise?

December 25th, 2007 01:13 PM

Giving points for spotting sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe one point for every 20 or 30 spots you make. I hope this is possible with the engine. There are not enough spotters on the public servers now. I hope the bug will soon be dealt with. I think it is the most annoying i recognized till now.
I think you should allow squadleaders to spot without pulling out the binoculars. It takes to long in closequarter combat.
Is it possible to have different objects displaced on the minimap for different players. The you could show objects spottet by normal soldiers on the minimaps of all those who are within hearing distance to the spotting soldier. This would be a kind of compensation for not having handsigns.