Quick grenade question
 

I tried searching for the thread on draw times but im bad at searching :(

I just want to get confirmation from the devs about how switching to nades is gonna work. I feel nade spamming would be greatly reduced if it took a while to switch between your gun and your nade, and vice versa. This would force the player to use the nade in situations where he has cover and is explicitly trying to clear a hard point. You would really have to make a conscious choice to use nades and when in this situation.

As it is now, you can switch to nades within a second, toss em all rapid fire, and switch back to your gun, all under 5 seconds. This makes it so people just spam nades while charging, letting em throw nades while running right on top of the enemy.

I'm hoping there is going to be a good 1.5-2 second draw time between shouldering your weapon (dont really need to have a first person animation, just add a period of empty screen as the hands go off-screen to get the nade) to having a usable nade. Once you have the nade in your hand, im ok with having it being able to be thrown quickly, but there also should be a large draw time when you switch back to your weapon.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

No objections here, just shouldnt this be under suggestions?

Also, are rifle grenades gonna have more splash? They dont even reach half the splash of regular grenades. I'm still all for a firing delay, but it would be nice for them to do more damage or have more than 1 rifle nade.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

No, it's a question, not suggestion.:)

As for throwing grenades, as far as I know it is possible to throw them while holding weapon in one hand and well, since they're pretty important asset for a soldier, I bet military did all the effort even back then to make the easily accesable. I don't think there is much that can be done to prevent grenade spamming, in some cases of assaulting it is quite realistic anyway.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

the only definition of grenade spamming i recognise is: standing by a source of ammo and throwing an unlimited number of grenades (bf/fh1942), or resupplying yourself as you throw an unlimited number of grenades (bf2).

throwing 3 or so grenades in quick succession isn't really spam imho

Re: Quick grenade question
 

There are certain maps where if you die with nades in your pocket, you are wrong.

I agree with CTZ.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

A realistic and balanced implimentation of grenades would have a non-instant "setup time" where you move the grenade from your pocket to your hand.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

I agree.....The way grenades work is a bit unrealistic.....However I have never really had a problem with it. And with camping a nade box and chucking nades like mad....No problem with that. I have read accounts of a handfull of germans defending a hill and running low on ammo just useing grenades to fend off waves of of commies.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

But would be completely unrealistic. Grenades are supposed to be easy to access, and I think CoD2 does a great job of representing this. A better solution would be to lengthen the "resupply time" of grenades next to ammo crates. For example, you only get 1 grenade every 10 seconds, etc.

btw, how is FH team implementing ammo crates in FH2? Will it still be in boxes around the map and APCs, or just the Support guy?

Re: Quick grenade question
 

Hopefully they'll go the BF2 route and eliminate ammo boxes completely relying on supply trucks or paradrops to resupply troops instead of conviently placed ammor dumps.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

Hmm, I'd like it if ammo dumps could be destroyed or depleted.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

they can be depleted in FH1

Re: Quick grenade question
 

I want my ammo "dumps" to only have one type of ammo per box. So you don't have a magic box resupplying all kinds of ammo but various sorts for tanks, infantery handweapons, anti tank weapons, anti tank guns etc. If you really want to go "far" you could make one box for every kind of ammo but I supposed a small pile of boxes that has a few types of hand ammo in the pile creates enough of an illusion to validate it resuppling all sorts of handweapons.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

i agree, a reasonable time for pulling out a nade is needed to prevent spam and make nade tossing more realistic. "Americas Army" does this quite well, btw. not to long but not to short.
when you switch to nade its like switching weapons, takes a split second. then you click to pull pin, again takes a split second. then you click again to throw, which again takes a splt second as it does the throw animation.
the whole thing takes maybe 1.5-2 seconds, but is just long enough to make you realistically vulnerable.

of coarse this must be balanced against other weapon systems ingame, and player movement speed. Americas Army is a much like pprm in its pace.
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about ammoboxes!

i cant stand bf2's no ammobox setup.
ammoboxes are realistic!!

i agree having them everywhere is not. but not having any is complete crap!!!
i cant tell you how many times ive died chasing someone spamming the "need ammo" button, only to be ignored. and then die with only my knife swinging in the wind.....
leaving ammo supply completely dependant on another player is retarded, imo, especially in pub play. im sure it works fine in clan play. but in public its a joke. half the time there is no commander in public servers, and support dudes dont care if you have ammo most of the time, and certainly arent going to go out of their way to get you any. especially if they dont know you from adam.

90% of the time in bf2/poe2/opk/pprm/2142.... i die running all over the map looking for an ammo dude to drop ammo, who wont even drop any when you shoot him in the leg... NO THANKS!!!
not only that it contributes massively to the radio spam. it makes people hammer the "need ammo" button non-stop, while they hide off in the boonies waiting for ammo. ive spent half a map doing nothing because i had no ammo, and couldnt get any. yeah that was real fun,....not!
every ww2 battle i can think of had ammo supplies IRL, either ammo dumps or supply vehicles carrying the ammo supplies.
the whole problem with the BF2 system is, it requires another player (some 12 yr old usually) to actually decide to drop ammo for you. instead of it being automatic when you get close, like how ammoboxes work.
i dont care if the only ammo box is in main bases, but there must be ammo supplies that dont require another player to decide to give it to you. thats just utter crap, and my second biggest complaint about BF2 and the other mods. and one of the reasons i dont play any of them much. just to frustrating dying because theres no ammo anywhere and cant get any.

having ammo-supply somewhere is a must! preferably only in main bases for realism. keep the ammo supply dudes and trucks for supply out on the battlefield. thats a realistic setup, and doesnt leave people stranded with no ammo anywhere, unless someone decides to drop you some.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

As in another thread, destroyable bot ammo trucks that run in a pattern!!
** Not sure about implementation**

I think if you know a certain map is going to have ABC building here, DEF ruin here, GHI church here every time, there should be at least token fixed ammo/medical supplies.

On original topic, I think the grenades are ok as is. Of course, that box that someone is standing by chucking nades should run out at some point in time and space...

Re: Quick grenade question
 

I usually die before I run out of ammo....:(

Re: Quick grenade question
 

Heh, the destroyable ammo trucks remind me of Desert Strike.

Spainiard, change your sig size, soon. It is a bit big.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

The BF2 devs thought it'd help gameplay to have to rely on a teammate for ammo. *shrug*

The thing that gets me about BF2 is there is no longer X types of ammo. Remember how you could run out of grenades in FH1 but there'd still be bullets left? That's completely gone in BF2. A total step backward.

Re: Quick grenade question
 

Teamplay cant be forced, it just wont work, unless you add a mechanism to punish players for not doing their job. (like anyone would support that feature, bring me ammo, or i ptk you. lol) Especially if its an integral part of the game as getting resupplied.
Give players the tools for teamplay, and leave the level of which its used to the players. FH did it right, they gave us ammo trucks to deliver ammo. Theres your teamplay, totally discretionary. But if no ones doing teamplay today, your not screwed and unable to play the game after expending 2 clips. Unlike having no ammo anywhere in bf2, what if no one wants to play support dude? Oh well, too bad?


O.T.

Thats true now that you mention it, bf2's ammocrates dont supply ammo types seperately. I wonder if that can be changed, and if ammo types can be coded in? Otherwise there will be endless supplies of nades,fausts, piats, etc, from any permanant supply crate or truck.
Perhaps thats why they have no permanent supply crates anywhere in BF2, hmmm. Well thats not sounding good...