About flak Lag and pilots
 

In FH:1942 flak and other AA pieces, like all weapons, has that annoying tendency to lag to the point where even though you can see the pieces falling off the plane, you never hit it becase the plane is actually 20 feet somewhere else. This allows pilots to get away with a lot of crud that would probably get them shot down in real life.

But in BF2, it seems lag is handled alot better and what you see on screen is much more closer to how it is on the server. Assuming FH2 flak handles more or less the same way it does in FH1942, do you think this might leave pilots a bit outmatch? Especially when gunners won't have to do as many guess and check 500km leads as the do now?

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Never.

Currently, AA tends to be a bad joke, everything but the most potent pieces seem to be shooting nothing more than nerf darts, if aa actually works better in FH2, it will teach some pilots a little about "masking" and tactics.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

We pilots will adapt. If the Devs give in to these '1337 tankers' who don't like getting raped by planes and increase the view distance and up AA power then us pilots will simply fly higher. The one thing that sucks in FH right now is the Vierling, its such a n00b weapon its not even funny anymore. You can kill someone on the overside of the map with it and don't evne get me started on the non reloading ostwind :(

What I find funny is that people are like 'OMG t3h Stuka pwns my Sherman on El Alamein'. Well my advice would be don't fucking drive in the middle of the desert where you stick out like a sore thumb :o

IMO if they increase view distance then they should NOT up AA power as thats just an overkill. In the hell of the bocage anyone? ( 4 SdKfz 7's vs 1 P51 :uhoh:)

Hardly, the Ostwind & M19 kill in one direct hit which is not hard to acheive given there ROF. The vierling is an utter joke and rips planes apart in split seconds and has the range of a interbalisitc nuke. The Allied AA kills in one hit and is not hard to use. The 20mm is pretty shit but does some decent damage if it hits. The Jap 25mm AA is damn good and cuts up planes with ease. The 88mm sucks unless you get a direct hit.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Well used AA is the bane of my existence

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

1, sights would usless for aa in my opionen and i do decent damage with the aa now
2. i was in the mobile german jeep with the 20mm gun and i took out a spitfire about me lol:D

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

There is a difference between AA and AAA. Anti Aircraft guns are usually hit or miss affairs while Anti Aircraft Artillery has the flak bursts.

Historically, anti aircraft guns of all types were not that effective per unit. But then again pilots in the war did their best not to make themselves big targets.

Flak in FH is pretty sad, because you basically require a hit to register any damage, which is simply not how it works in real life. Also planes can fly around with damaged fuel and oil and coolant lines in FH that would have them on the ground pretty fast IRL.

The veirling is overpowered in FH because of it's uber range. It may be accurate in terms of scale with player hieghts, but in the world of air engagements it's really far reaching.

Hopefully view distances go up in FH2, short range AA can't fire FOREVER, flak burst distance is selectable (right click charge anyone?), and all that good stuff.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

The Ostwind is ridiculous. It is no measure of things and ought to be given reload times.

The Vierling _was_ a potent weapon.

And view distance SHOULD be increased. As it stands, I think AA turns too fast (sorry, but seeing the little guy's hands cranking away like some hamster on steroids is just stupid.) AA turn speed should be a bit more realistic, but in turn, view distance ought to be increased drastically.

El Alamein right now is stupid. It is one of the few maps where I would like to see "land-to-reload" implemented, the way it is on Hell of Bocage. The terrain is utterly unrealistic (deserts aren't just pancake-flat), and the number of tanks vs. the number of planes vs. the size of the map (i.e. distance from airfields) just does not work as it stands.

The desert war was one of movement in some parts, and digging in and hunkering down in others. This shouldn't be screwed up just because some plane junkies like having near-total invincibility in areas that happen to not have mobile AA (or any realistic semblance of terrain variation where you could drop an SdKfz).

As above, air in HoB is poorly done. I like the amount of AA there, but I definitely don't think that map should have land-to-reload.

I thought the 88 and Bofors both did splash damage?

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

They do do splash damage. Kinda. But the splash has to really close...

I know for sure that I've taken down planes without getting a direct hit.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Hey I rule in the 88 on BtR. I seem to have a knack for getting that thing to hit, and when it does, it can take down an easy target like a Wellington or Lancaster in 2 hits, and a Swordfish or Spit/Hurricane in 1 (which is, at least for me, not trouble at all to hit them).

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Cool, thanks for clearing that up.

Part of the "gah" factor of FH is crap view range for both AA and planes, and the fact that bombers can't look down (which Lobo indicated will be fixed in FH2.) So currently you can't really level-bomb in a medium/heavy bomber, and have to keep doing silly dives to spot targets from high up.

To be honest, this sort of goes into what MG42Maniac was saying earlier--visibility should be further, but planes also need to be able to realistically spot targets in order not to expose themselves to ground fire all the time, only when they need to. So, in my magic ideal world,

-Visibility would be real-world-ish (can't imagine every WWII battle was fought in fog)
-AA guns would have realistic behavior--range, turning speed, damage
-Planes can look down

This would mean that

-More dogfights take place at much higher altitudes
-Planes are more susceptible to AA, which can spot them from further away
-Planes don't need to be low down so often
-AA has more difficulty tracking fast-moving targets

It'd all even itself out, and we wouldn't have the ridiculous mosquito-swarm action we have in some maps like El Al right now.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

I've found that AA works just fine, I've brought down planes with 88's in BtR. Though only because British Heavies tend to come in low and straight at the AA guns in that map.

However I understand the problem with increasing the view range is that it turns FH into a slide show. Although I am really just talking out my @ss here as I know nothing about programing.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Where do you suppose they drive?

I suppose we will just have to agree to dissagree, because some of these "uber" AA pieces are far from it, in my experience.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

The ostwind overheats pretty quickly and getting an actual damage-to-plane is not so easy. Plus you can hit a P-51 with one or two 37mm rounds and have it keep flying. (Personal Experience)

I wouldn't mind if they made the AA not spin-on-a-dime fast, but you gotta remember that the targets they are tracking are moving anguarly across the sky faster than reality, so don't go nuts.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

One little comment for you guys, AA was the main killer of planes, both bombers and fighters, in WW2. The fact that it kills you is just part of life. In reality, no fighter plane could withstand 1 hit from the 37mm of the Ostwind, nor a burst from the 20mm of the Vierling

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

yeh dude but u have to rember the ostwing and verling hadn 2 loaders either side of it replacing it as soon as it was empty so it should be quick

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

aa should spawn in completly random places or be able to be built places, and shouldnt show up on the mini map. Whalla, pilots will be owned. Planes only piss me off when there is no mobile flak. hell even with the 222 which is just a flak 38 basically, you can take out some good fighters. now the ostwind and the m19 are just gods. so when aa isnt static pilots get raped. I think the AA is fine, it seems pretty balanced, hell with the 25mm and the veirling ive owned the best pilots in the game about half the time, and those are static positions that they have bombed hundreds of times.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Tisk tisk...

Us 1337 tankers don't whine about you flyboys. The truly 1337 turn their cannon skyward and knock you guys out of the sky. Should that fail, we use turret mounted guns to drive you off.

Its the newbs who whine for more AA protection.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

I'd like to see AA guns towable with trucks, it's a low tech, common, and very realistic implimentation of AA that's mobile.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

As long as AA doesn't _just_ become towable/deployable, I'd love to see this. There were plenty of light/medium truck- and tank-mounted AA weapons in WWII on both sides (HINT HINT).

Devs, suggestion, to get around any kind of goofy engine limitations or difficulties in coding towable/deployable weapons, why not just handle light AA like halftrack-deployable MGs for first releases of FH2?

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Shooting down planes with AA guns has nothing to do with lag. It's your skill to shoot and your ability to take the lead into count.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

lol i knew that the whole time but i didn't point out since most people really don't care becasues there planes are getting pwned by aa:D

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

If I have this right, firing a flak round at a plane:

1. Flak is aimed and fired at plane
2. Round gets within x distance to plane
3. Flak burst is spawned at location
4. Flak burst does damage to aircraft

If this is the case, then lag would of course make a difference. By the time the flakburst spawned the plane would be somewhere else. I notice this is what's visually going on, but the damage behind it, I dunno.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

No what he means is the skill part is knowing where to aim in regards to your ping.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

AA will trump aircraft.
Ground forces will trump AA.


use dem sappers to good effect :p

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

I understand that part, but I'm talking about the lag delay of proximity detonation -> flak burst. This is something you CANNOT fix by simply aiming better.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Agreed, I have shot down B26s on Alpenfestung with the Panther's main gun and the P51 on HoB with the PzIVH.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Panther= AA gun of doom.:naughty:

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Which, honestly, is Just Plain Wrong if you ask me.

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

doh the 88mm was a aa gun

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

I think he is aware of that....

Re: About flak Lag and pilots
 

Problem is, that any AA gun you have in FH is super ping dependent, i can shoot down bots that do the worst maneuvers without problems on my own servers with any AA, but on the servers i usually play on (130th, Allied Front), with a ping around 150, i can almost hit nothing, except with a flakvierling mabye.