sandbags on tanks

[Frederf]

Anything that FH made for BF1942 belongs to FH, not DiCE/EA. So of course they can use anything "uniquely FH" over again for FH2.

[Anlushac11]

Some stuff built for FH can be used for FH2 but its a bit more complicated than just converting it over. Some stuff will need to be almost rebuilt. Then there is the matter of DX9 skins and texturing.

The code is similar but not the same, at least this time there is a editor and documentation.

[Mazz]

I was reading somewhere about Shermans (looking for info on the E8s armor values, which I never completely found) and saw some info about the sandbag protected shermans and how Pattons "techinal experts" said sand actually increased penetration for shaped charged weapons.

Link to entire article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_tank

General George S. Patton, informed by his technical experts that sand actually increased vulnerability to shaped-charge weapons (a controversial opinion) and that the machines' chassis suffered from the extra weight, forbade the use of sandbags and instead ordered tanks under his command to have the front hull welded with extra armour plates, salvaged from knocked-out American and German tanks.

Now I found this really interesting and any more info would be nice (preferably anlushac )

That, and the armor values for a M4A3E8 "Easy Eight" vs. M4A3E2
I've heard to many differences in that the E8 did have the extra armor of the jumbo, it didnt have any extra, and it had partial. WHat I believe is it gained the extra turret armor from the T23 turret but no real increase in Hull armor. I am not positive which is true.

[Neighbor Kid]

I challenge all who think they are going to be great with this new armor of the sort in .7! btw is tread disablility still WIP?

btw also now my sherman will be MORE INVICIBLE! YOU PANTHERS AND TIGERS ARE DONE!

oh and say a zooka hits the top between the spaced armor and hits the main armor? will is kill the tank or will the spaced armor some how cover the side?

[Flyboy1942]

I think the side section that is "covered" by the side skirt will be coded not to except damage from AT weapons, so I doubt that you could somehow shoot through the space. (how could you anyways? stand on top of the tank itself?

[oscar989]

Originally Posted by Flyboy1942

I think the side section that is "covered" by the side skirt will be coded not to except damage from AT weapons, so I doubt that you could somehow shoot through the space. (how could you anyways? stand on top of the tank itself?

That would be cool to throw a nade from the top of the tank.

[czech speacial forces]

i dount think it is posible to code this is bf9142. if this was true then you would be abe to shoot from jeeps like in bf2

[Dios]

Originally Posted by Mazz

That, and the armor values for a M4A3E8 "Easy Eight" vs. M4A3E2
I've heard to many differences in that the E8 did have the extra armor of the jumbo, it didnt have any extra, and it had partial. WHat I believe is it gained the extra turret armor from the T23 turret but no real increase in Hull armor. I am not positive which is true.

I've seen the M4A3E8 as having the same armour values than the Jumbo too, but I wouldn't be so sure about that nor that it gained the T23 turret.
Maybe just has that name because it was the first version to use the HVSS suspension, but was like a regular M4A3 in every other aspect, of course that A3's with HVSS and for instance, a 76mm gun, would have the other turret. But then again, considering that the HVSS was designed to solve weight problems, maybe it was becuase of the increased weight of all that extra armor .
If anyone else knows how it was for good, and can clear this up, I'd be very glad too.

About the added armor plates, as far as I know, usually pieces of blown up Panthers and other well armored tanks were the prefered to add to the front armor to make some sort of poor man's Jumbo.

[Anlushac11]

Originally Posted by Mazz

I was reading somewhere about Shermans (looking for info on the E8s armor values, which I never completely found) and saw some info about the sandbag protected shermans and how Pattons "techinal experts" said sand actually increased penetration for shaped charged weapons.
Link to entire article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_tank
Now I found this really interesting and any more info would be nice (preferably anlushac )

I do not believe for a second sandbags enhanced panzerfaust penetration.

However adding sandbags and add on protection enhanced the likelyhood of shells striking the vehicle were more liekly to penetrate instead of possibly bouncing off.

Patton is documented to have verbally and publicly berated his troops for adding protection. His reasoning was that the extra weight of the protective measures raised the gasoline usage of the Shermans. which was the one thing he was having problems getting since he was often outrunning his supply lines. Patton was also known to have called his men cowards for trying to increase the protection on their tanks. There is a picture lurking on the internet of Patton walking back to his jeep after chewing out a tank commander for his added on protection.

It is also ducumented that when the Sherman Jumbo arrived many field maintenance units made their own uparmored Sherman Jumbo equivalents out of materials salvaged from wrecked Shermans or captured enemy vehicles.

During teh bocage fiasco it was somewhat common for Shermans ot be uparmored at the field repair depot level. Belton Cooper covers the upgrades in his book "Deathtraps: The Survival of a US armored division."

That, and the armor values for a M4A3E8 "Easy Eight" vs. M4A3E2
I've heard to many differences in that the E8 did have the extra armor of the jumbo, it didnt have any extra, and it had partial. WHat I believe is it gained the extra turret armor from the T23 turret but no real increase in Hull armor. I am not positive which is true.

The Sherman M4A3E8 just means

M4 - Medium tank model M4
A3 - Ford GAA V8 engine
E8 - The Horizontal volute suspension system which gave a much smoother ride. This came with much wider 580mm tracks compared to the stock 420mm tracks. The new suspension and the much wider tracks finally gave the Sherman the off road performance to compete with the Tigers and Panthers

It just so happens that the vast majority of E8 Shermans were built with 76mm guns and by that time all had the 47 deg front hull which had 64mm of armor angled 47 deg from vertical and wet ammo storage on the floor.

The old dry hull Shermans had the ammo stored in the sponsons over the tracks and had 45mm front hul armor angled 55 deg from vertical. The ammo storage location led to the Sherman being a deathtrap. Patch panels were often welded onto the side hull in a attempt to uparmor where the ammo was stored. The only thing the patch panels accomplished was to tell teh Germans "Shoot here".

The T23 turret was developed from the T23 medium tank project, hence its name. The T23 turret was designed with the 76mm gun in mind and also came with thicker armor.

Stock 75mm turret had 89mm gun manlet, 76mm turret front, and 51mm turret sides and rear.

The T23 came with 89mm manlet, and 64mm turret front, sides, and rear.

The Sherman Jumbo was built from stock M4A3 wet hulls but with 102mm front armor, and 76mm upper side armor.

The Jumbo's turret was based off the T23 turret because it had better armor, was already heavy duty, and could handle the 76mm gun.

The Jumbo's modified T23 turret had 178mm gun manlet, 150mm turret front, sides, and rear.

The Sherman Jumbo was defined by the E2 designation. To offset the weight of the Sherman Jumbo (from 33 tons to 42 tons) all M4A3E2 Sherman "Jumbo's" carried what were called duckbill grousers and extend end track connectors. These were L-shaped brackets that bolted on under the track pin and gave the tracks more surface area to reduce the ground pressure. It worked but hte Grousers were vulnerable to rocks and curbs and had a tendancy to break off. It was not unusual to see a Jumbo missing a number of grousers.

[Dios]

So as I thought, E8 was only because of the HVSS suspension. Did all the other Sherman models using the same suspension had the E8 designation too, or they were called differently?