Bocage
 

Say u are an axis pilot,u want to engage f***ing p47, say each team has one flag and the middle flag is once captured by allies once by axis, p47 comes drops his bombs (assuming he flies high to avoid enemy flak, drops bombs from a steep dive flies low to home above friendly aa) kills 2 tanks and while his return u r @his six u begin to shoot but the bastard plane is though and wont burn,he manages to return to base and some plane waiting person mans the aa in the ally base and u manage to burn the p47(in fact with 1- 2 shot(s) from a 30mm canon he'd have been blown off the sky ) but pilot jumps out of the plane with chute(because allies have pilot kits near their planes) ,the aa destroys you.As soon as the bailed pilot grounds,or after a few seconds another p47 spawns ally pilot gets in,(before the axis tanks spawn ) he does it over and over again and the axis pilot doesnt have fucking chance to shoot the plane(it is impossible to spot when both planes @high altitude u have to fly low to see p47 while dropping bombs)So what is the meaning of bf 109 in bocage,u cant avoid p47s before he drops his bombs, when he is on his way to home if he is a little bit clever he wont loose his plane(cause of ally flak)even if he looses another spawns in no time,again it is impossible(assuming ally flak are not empty)for u to kill him before he drops his bombs and killing your tanks.İ have witnessed a friend of mine using p47 in a 20vs 20 public game in bocage all three vierlings manned and by doing this he scored 30 kills 3 deaths(deaths by flak) in 20 minutes.Yes i play on this server regularly and the flak guys are not noobs so dont blame them.

Re: Bocage
 

Erm........if you're talking about damage to planes. I believe that is being fixed in 0.62....

Re: Bocage
 

nah, hes just a whiner.

Whole map needs redoing wait for the new version of Bocage.

Re: Bocage
 

Its unbelievable how animated some peeps can get over a fkin game LOL,here try one of these dewd Kleenex

Re: Bocage
 

Yep lets hope FH 0.62 is way better where flying and aircraft damage is concerned.

But the mappers have a tremendous important task too. If positon and number of flak and the choice or number of aircraft is not carefully (re)considred ( some DICE maps seem to suffer from that ) the map can become more then unfair for one side, and the map is ruined as far as flying is concerned.

I also hope for less fog in maps where aircraft are added. In Orel it is kind of useless trying to intercept the Stuka as it dissapears into the fog before you can turn around to engage it. You only have a chance if you stumble upon it's tail in the fog. With all the buildings, trees and the dense fog it is hard for the Stuka to kill anything exept around and in the enemy base anyway too. ( flying near or over an enemy base is forbidden in many servers ) Same goes for prokhorovka, you have to fly very low and have very fast reflexes to succesfully destroy a mobile groundtarget. If you have to go around for a second run, chances are it is gone in the fog and you cannot find it anymore. Flying that low means you are shot out of the air by tank cannons.......and they have a much better chance then you have, since you are a very weak target. Tanks shooting aircrat out of the air with their cannon is ofcourse unrealistic and too rediculous for words !

But i know why the fog is there........but i don't understand why BG42 mappers do not have that problem. They have a lot of large and great looking maps too, even with often 2 x as much vehicles or even more per side in the map, but without the irritating dense fog or lag. They do use the same bf1942 game as platfom.

Re: Bocage
 

The thing that annoyed Kruder was just that instead of dogfighting it's much easier to fly back to your base, yell a few times "plane spotted" and wait till your AA gets rid of the problem. I have seen that used by both teams and there is not much you can do about it on maps like Bocage, where you only need like 5 seconds to be close enough to friendly AA. You have to wait for the patch, when everything is going to be better for us pilots again :)

Re: Bocage
 

Bah, even when you hit a plane with a tank, they don't go down unless already badly damaged. They don't even start to smoke, like when you shoot at a Stuka with a T-34. Now THAT'S ridiculous. If a plane makes a low-altitude run, a tank in real life could hit it, and should be able to in the game.

Of course the game places some restrictions on bombing from way up (visibility), but still it sucks that if you hit 'em, it doesn't do crap. It's not like the plane doesn't have an advantage to begin with, the bomb doesn't even have to hit very near the tank to blow it up, while the tanks are helpless against the planes. And with your side's fighters most likely being busy kamikazing enemies and the like, it's not like you can expect an aircraft to give you cover from above. If you see a Stuka coming, you're gonna blow up, and there's nothing you can do about it. Can't evade, can't kill it, all you can do is die, again.

Re: Bocage
 

You can hit them. I popped a Stuka square in the nose with a 75mm on ElAl the other day when he made a second run at my sherman :lol: Boom no more stuka.

Re: Bocage
 

I frequently shoot down IL2, Stukas, Ju88 etc. with just one shot of the tank cannon without earlier damage to the plane. So from my experience, planes die from one tankcannon shot, period (well not perhaps a PzII =) What most probably are happening to you are the (in)famous server vs client hit detection. The client (aka you) shoots, scores a hit on your computer, but when all the latency are computed at the server, the server then decides that it wasn't a hit. But all you se is the hit indicator indicating a hit but the plane survives mysteriously.

Try playing with a friend on a local area connection or somewhere where both you and your target have a very low ping and you will se that the planes are indeed vulnerable to cannon fire.

Re: Bocage
 

I can really recommend the Russian BT7 as an AA tank. Fast rof and decent damage against planes. I recently got a Ju88a down on Valirisk with a single shot and hit. :lol:

But the PzII also is rather effective as anti-air with its quickly rotating turret and the straight-firing 20mm cannon. Park it near some trees or ruins so that you cannot be attacked directly and give enemy planes a really hard time - on Kharkov, for example. :naughty: Maybe just about the only thing that tin-can is good for.

Re: Bocage
 

dudes, i shot down a p51 mustang with a def gun on iwo jima....

Re: Bocage
 

Hits on the wings and rear fuselage will often do nothing while engine-hits are always fatal.
The T34-76 is my favourite AAA :)

Re: Bocage
 

I hit a A-26 with a Puma on Alpenfestung and got a hit marker but the plane only started smoking from both engines. I was surprised since I know I hit it.

Re: Bocage
 

Took down a yak9 yesterday with a panzerfaust, first panzerfaust to plane kill ever for me ;)

But yes, sometimes (well not sometimes....a LOT of the time) this game drops packets and your target only gets reduced or no damage at all. Kind of a pain in the neck but that's not something we can fix.

Why is it unrealistic for a tank to shoot down a plane with it's main gun? High velocity cannon taking down an airplane seems reasonable to me, I mean that flak18/36 is both anti tank and can be used for anti air. Planes coming in that low make themselves vulnerable to ground fire, whether it's from rifle, MG, or Cannon fire. If you're in a slow plane don't go in near the ground, or you're dead. I mean how often would you see an he111 of ju88 flying ground level during combat? They don't have the speed or manueverabiliyt of a dive bomber you know ;)

Re: Bocage
 

shot down a plane with a PIAT last campaign in BFE. Granted it was during a practice...

Re: Bocage
 

Cheat!!!!

Hmm, I can't see anyone complaining about it's unrealistic to shoot down planes with tankguns in this thread (not counting 1st post, since I can decipher what he is trying to say). So I'll just consider that a proof of developer paranioa :)
All this thread is about is hotshots that brag about how good they are with scoring kills, I'm just waiting for that special person to claim a planekill with a knife :D
(although I did once get a FF|cihset k98sniper Allanx when that guy flew a plane. Had shot him with an AAgun and then switched to sniper rifle)

Re: Bocage
 

I never heard about a tank shooting down a plane with it's primary weapon.
Ok, they do have high velocity guns, similar/identical to AA-guns, but those AA-guns were used to shoot bombers flying some kilometers above the ground with relative small speed and not to attack dive-bombing or strafing planes which move extremely fast, as far as I know.
So, for gameplay's sake I don't mind if not every hit of a tank destroys an aircraft.

Re: Bocage
 

it happened in korea to a mig :(

Re: Bocage
 

Thats what you call mad skillz....

well for the tank crew at least

Re: Bocage
 

Well since the bombs aren't exaclty doing realistic damage there is little choice.

Re: Bocage
 

$%^&*# !!!!

That is because these FH mappers force us ground level with their #$%@^& fog !!!!!

You can't see anything if you fly higher then treetop height.......and that is right where tanks are going to pluck you out of the air. I have no problems killing aircraft with tank cannons if they fly low....with a single shot. ( ask MKH^ )

In normal maps tanks would't be able to because their gun cant be raised high enough to shoot at you.

Fog isn't really bad for maps, but it is when you are going to decide to add aircraft in your map. There are always people who seem to know better, but fog and aircraft is no good. It is not for nothing in the real war, aircraft did not fly in such weather conditions......at all !!

Re: Bocage
 

Unless your name was Heinrich Rudel.....

Re: Bocage
 

AFAIK, Ju88s WERE dive bombers, atleast they had dive breaks....:naughty:

Re: Bocage
 

Was he the real superman with X ray eyes, or did he teleport back from the future with all weather aircraft radar ?

Fog has gradations you know, he may have flown in light haze to cover him doing some important mission he didn't want to be jumped by allied fighters....but no one flew in dense fog......not even that guy. If he did, it is propaganda.

The fog in prohorovka and Orel is downright dense fog, in wich no aircraft would ever take off, war or not.

Re: Bocage
 

The Ju88 were very manouverable....I heard stories from pilots how they flew those planes at tree level...and how easy it was to handle a Ju88, despite of its size....

P.S. Beast, some pilots did have to fly in those conditions, but that was usually because of a miscalculation or a sudden change of weather. I read that in case of bad weather, the pilots usually tried to land at the nearest airfield possible, if they were on a mission...

P.P.S. Rudel was no super man, he was just a very good pilot, who knew the capabilities of his machine....

Re: Bocage
 

He was also quite insane, which was my point with flying in the fog :beer:

Re: Bocage
 

Capabilities of the machine are useless when you can't see anything.....

It is obvious you are all too young to drive a car or motorcycle.....or you would know what you are talking about.....have you got the guts to drive 200 km/h when you can't see 20 m in front of you ? How can you ever fly a plane then, that goes many times faster without radar and radio beacons ??? Even today fog is VERY dangerous and jams airport incoming traffic, as several non class 3 runways wil have to be closed down. Since they did not have class 3 runways in WWII, and no instruments to land in fog...... :rolleyes:

I drive 140 km/u in dense fog sometimes, with a train and it is very disturbing. You can't see signs coming up untill they flash by and then you haven't had time to see them clear. Since these 700 ton things have a stopping distance of over 1,5 km with that speed, the automatic train influence system is the only thing that can reduce the effects of my mistakes. You would probably shit your pants being in that locomotive at that speed seeying nothing......all these passengers seem to think nothing can happen but they are very wrong, the Dutch railtack system is the busiest in the world, i can often see the tail of another train in clear weather.......

Re: Bocage
 

Hehe, Aight, I write it in plain text then.


When I responded to your original post about Fog with rudel as an example, I meant that only Rudel would be stupid enough to fly in fog since he was by all accounts a maniac. Of course no one flies in heavy fog since you can't see what you're aiming for, where you're going and you won't be able to land.

I admit I wasn't clear of my intentions with my post, but I like when my posts can be interpreted in several ways, just like stupid paintings. :naughty:

Re: Bocage
 

I do not doubt that it is dangerous business flying in the fog...but as you know, fog usually appears close to the ground and not 500m above it....and with instruments, it is not that hard to fly above th fog level and still fly on route.

And as I said, sometimes they were forced to fly in bad wheather, if the wheather changes suddenly...so I do not see why a pilot flying in bad wheather is insane in your opinion Cihset. Usually the pilots had two choices if the weather changed suddenly. 1. They crashland and most probably die. 2. they fly on to get out of the bad weather and have a greater chance of survival.

Re: Bocage
 

Ah, my bad. I meant engaging in combat, when I said flying in fog.
Of course bad weather jumps up and bite you in the arse now and then when you fly around looking for bad guys. But there are few pilots who deliberately take off in bad weather.

Re: Bocage
 

I know all about that. However, in those cases it can't be about lag. The planes are coming straight at me, and with a straight-shooting gun it'd be a hit, lag or no lag. But I've read somewhere about rounds not doing proper damage to a plane's engine. I can usually easily destroy a plane with a single shot if I manage to hit it on the side - I've done that a couple of times.

Re: Bocage
 

Yes, I once shot a loaded B-17 down with an 88mm and gained 6 kills at once...only to find out I was firing AT shells. 1 shot 1 kill...its easy to shoot planes down with main guns, I've done and seen other players do it many times on maps like Breakthrough - 1944.

Re: Bocage
 

well, It should be possible. though, It shouldent happen that often..

Heres some T-34's getting ready for AA shooting..

Re: Bocage
 

My complain about bocage was that there are too many aa guns.In vanilla bf it is acceptable because there are 5 planes in vanilla bocage one is b17,and in vanilla bf the planes are much more devastating,but in bocage of fh there is only 2 (or 3 depending on flag combination) aircraft,one is a fighter but the aa numbers are equal to original bocage which makes dogfight unneccessary.5 planes vs 7 flaks of total in vanilla, 2 or 3 planes vs 7 flaks in fh,that was my point.
P.s:i dont think any aircraft was shot down by a tanks main gun,it is impossible considering slow traverse speed elevation.

Re: Bocage
 

Pretty please, give us a Bocage like the one in XWWII. That's how the one in Vanilla BF should have looked like.

Cheers,
Mick

Re: Bocage
 

ive been killed by a landmine while flying in my plane :( i think i was flying to low :/, thing was, my landing gear wasnt down

Re: Bocage
 

What do you think about decreasing the falk-damage a little bit?

Re: Bocage
 

FlaK damage is realistic, its the aircrafts speed and manouverability that makes the flak seem superdooper atm

Re: Bocage
 

Well ok, that's right :)
I actually liked how some of the dive-bombers fly now, but it also makes them perfect flakfodder. So perhaps it's better to give them more speed. Like this it also required more skill to bomb something :)

Re: Bocage
 

Impossible? Nope. Very hard? Definitely. I myself haven't found account of tanks shooting planes down with the main gun so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has happened. I do know that tanks sometimes did TRY to shoot planes down, just haven't heard if anyone has had success.

Re: Bocage
 

I was in a B25 with someone and a guy shot us out of the air twice with a Nebel http://www.gamingforums.com/images/s...28frown%29.gif

Re: Bocage
 

I've done this a good amount of times.

Some genius thinks it's funny to try to strafe me and clip me with his wing at the same time....But Uh oh! I toss a landmine as high up in the air as I can and duck down so his flaming wreck doesn't kill me. Funniest thing ever.

Also, don't try that kamikaze your plane into me while I'm in a tank thing...I have a way around it so I get the kill and I also live. ;)

Re: Bocage
 

Would you care to kindly enlighten me as to how you do this?

Re: Bocage
 

*cough* secret dev-cheat mode *cough* :Pc: :tank: :nono:

Re: Bocage
 

Smartmode 1

His name was Hans Ulrich Rudel...

Smartmode 0

Re: Bocage
 

Didn't someone post a King Tiger account a while ago where some allied soldier explained that a KT blasted a low flying P-51 out of the sky?