The simple fact of the matter can be summed up in as many words....
The allies did not have an assault class heavy tank the entire war. Get over it for gods sake!!
Tigers, King Tigers, etc etc, were destroyed "by committee" that is, not by out gunning them, not by better thicker armor, but by shear numbers.
There were ~ 1354 Tigers produced in the war!!!
Do you have a clue how many Shermans were produced during the war including all versions???!!!!!
MORE THAN 44,000!!!!!! is it any surprise the Tiger's kill ratio was 5 to 1? no.
It is a small wonder that the United States produced 52% of the TOTAL number of ALL combat vehicles of ALL nations during the war. Arsenal of democracy they called it.
I don't see why everyone is looking for a US tank to counter the King Tiger, Tiger I, and the Panther? There wasn't one that we could use in the mod ans still call it a realism mod.
Use Airpower! That's what they used! And in Maps like Battle of the Bulge use Stationary AT-Guns and defensive fortifications.
The US Army decided not to use stationary A/T guns and instead went to gun motor carriages mounting anti tank guns. That means M-10 and M-36, which are in game.
But the 76mm gun in game on the M10 is a joke against the Tiger. And the 90mm gun on the M36 cant even penetrate the side armor of a Tiger I in one shot at 20m. At that rate what the hell good is it against a Tiger II?
Lets give the Germans 37mm A/T guns which are totally worthless against T-34's and KV-1's, and give you Pz 38t's and Pz III's with the same 37mm gun, and take away the Germans Panzerfausts and when you people start screaming bloody murder because your equipment is shit we'll just smile and say "Fuck you, use your stationary a/t guns and defensive fortifications."
The US Army decided not to use stationary A/T guns and instead went to gun motor carriages mounting anti tank guns. That means M-10 and M-36, which are in game.
But the 76mm gun in game on the M10 is a joke against the Tiger. And the 90mm gun on the M36 cant even penetrate the side armor of a Tiger I in one shot at 20m. At that rate what the hell good is it against a Tiger II?
Lets give the Germans 37mm A/T guns which are totally worthless against T-34's and KV-1's, and give you Pz 38t's and Pz III's with the same 37mm gun, and take away the Germans Panzerfausts and when you people start screaming bloody murder because your equipment is shit we'll just smile and say "Fuck you, use your stationary a/t guns and defensive fortifications."
Remember guys the game we are playing here attempts to portray realism as much as you can. Now there are just somethings that limit this from happening on the scale that we all would like, for example why cant i drive my 30-70 tank over a tree? or why cant i fly my plane above 1000ft? u cant dig trenches u cant blow up buildings, alot of basic realism things that would make this game interesting simply cannot be achieved because of anothe EA games "brilliant" creation. You really do much for the balance issues in this game as far as changing spawn points and etc as described already above by some of the board members.
My biggest complaint is the constant vehicle stealing by other team members, and i think that most of us would agree that you would not be able to hop into another countries tank and drive it flawlessly without ever having to be trained for it. People all want balance and say oh my equipment is terrible its not fair etc etc etc. And its true the american equipment gun for gun tank for tank etc etc for the most part is inferior to just about everything the germans had, and yes the only way they really won was because of numbers. And we really cant balance on the scale that the allied players want or the scale the axis players want. Personally i play axis only and i think that some of the german equipment is still underpowered, but i can also understand the allied point of view, because i know that a sherman isnt gonna do shit to my tank nor is a bazooka round. So i can understand.
The FH team is building this mod they way they think it should be done, this is their idea and thus their creation, let them do what they want with it. Some people would still complain even if you replaced all the shermans with pershings, then they would so oh the guns underpowered and the tiger doesnt blow up when i shoot it once its not fair. People are always going to bitch and moan, In my opinion this is still the BEST mod out there closer to realism than other mod has ever come and i thank the FH team for all their work.
And on a final note remember that the Germans for almost 2 years fought T34s and Kv1 heavys with nothing more than PzIII's Pak36/38s and they still achieved many victories, through this experience the germans learned to make better tanks/ tank and anti-tank guns. What allowed them their victory throughout all this despite being outnumbered in almost every battle with their combat experience their combat doctrine and the quality of the german soldier. In my opinion there was no better soldier than that of the german soldier in the second world war.
The germans learned from their mistakes quickly on the eastern front and from this they learned to make equipment that was very effective and by 44 they had a huge array of well tested and worthy equipment at their disposal. Where as the americans learned at a much slower rate hench the huge losses in tanks in the european campaign. If you really look at it you notice that the US has really not had the technological edge it has now for very long, only since the 80s has really revamped its military and become the true power it is today.
White Ninja Comics "Soul too dark for the abyss, aborted son of hell's six hundred and sixty six wombs, a being of pure HELL, sustained by the black umbilical, weaned on HELLMILK and nursed at the teat of ABBADON, whore-queen of FESTERIA." - Penny Arcade
I can't wait till early war maps in Poland,France and Russia were Germans will have troubles against superior tanks. We can expect an influx of topics after 0.6 saying "Germans need panzerfaust in Poland" "Germans not uber enough" "Germans need a Tiger in France"
Not all people hang out in Mommys house hiding from the vagina, pete. Some of us MEN like it.- Beef Flaps
You know...I don't know about any King Tiger v. Pershing battles...but I haven't looked that hard. I DO KNOW that there was at least one Jagdtiger versus Super Pershing battle...and the Super Pershing won. You know how? US gunners learned to aim for the tracks. Irwin blew off the Jagdtigers drive sprocket and the crew bailed. Did the same to a Tiger, too. You loose mobility in a tank, you bail...there are MANY ways to knock a tank out...killing it is just one.
M26's came up against TIGERs. If anything it's a Tiger counter-part, not a King Tiger counterpart...but then again, air support and artillery weren't hard to find.
If you add the King Tiger, then it would be balanced by adding M4's with 76mm guns, Calliope's, Jumbo's, and Pershings. The ratio was 14 SHERMANS per Panzer. 40 per Tiger. So, and abundance of types and numbers would reflect reality....and help with balance.
Speaking of reality...another "let's talk about" thread just came to mind.
A Sherman tank can give you an... edge. - Oddball.
Last edited by BlitzPig_Machine; January 9th, 2004 at 10:05 PM.
Doesn't matter which way you throw down, the answer is still in the history. 1940 France or 1941/2 Russia they used Stukas and 88's.
Yeah, I played WWIIOnline as well.
EXACTLY MY FRIGGIN POINT!
Germans had the 88. A tank gun that can kill any tank gun in the game. Any doubts on whether a 88 can take out a T-34 or KV-1 in 1941?
Now cripple the performance of the 88 so that it takes 6 or more shots to the front, 3 shots in the side and 6 shots to the tail of a KV-1 to kill it and you will start to understand what I mean.
As I have said a hundred times, now 101 times, I dont expect a T-34/76 to kill a Tiger in one shot or a Sherman 75mm to kill a Tiger in 1 shot.
But the tanks that should be able to kill a Tiger I or Panther have been neutered to the point of not being a serious threat to a Tiger. Being a Sherman based vehicle the M36 and Firefly have to kill a Tiger in 1 shot because they probably wont get a second since anything in the game since anything German in the game with a cannon can kill a Sherman.
@Tiger Teufel:
"And on a final note remember that the Germans for almost 2 years fought T34s and Kv1 heavys with nothing more than PzIII's Pak36/38s and they still achieved many victories, through this experience the germans learned to make better tanks/ tank and anti-tank guns"
I assume you mean Pz35t, and Pz38t?
And do remember that whenever the Germans had too many problems with Russian tanks they always brought up the 88 which was the master of all Allied armor even toward the end of the war. The 88 usually had final say in who controlled the battlefield.
Last edited by Anlushac11; January 9th, 2004 at 10:10 PM.
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