They did suffer from automotive failures in the beginning, but once they were corrected the Tiger II had an operational status at the front of 58%, almost equal to the 62% of the Pz.Kpfw. IV.
It is true that many of the failures were due to their drivers poor skills and training. Many drove their first Tiger II for the first time when they were unloaded at the front.
Many of the faults could be corrected by field modifications and proper maintenance was paramount.
The problem with proper maintenance, and even proper construction, is that they require logistics. You have to get the engines, final drives, fuel, oil, replacement vision blocks, tracks, road wheels, etc. to them to fix them. That was difficult in '44 and impossible in '45.
And...while I trust Soviet data the LEAST when it comes to reports (especially where evaluations of Western equipment are concerned from that era...don't get me wrong some of it is VERY good...the problem is there are usually multiple data sets (the stuff they fed Pravda and the stuff they gave to Uncle Joe) German "readiness" data from '44 and '45 is suspect. There was a lot of telling folks what they want to hear. Especially where the Tiger II is concerned...this was the tank Hitler personally thought could win the war. Along with the jet that would singlehandedly win the...along...er...nevermidn.
In other words...late war German readiness data that comes from the Germans is probably less than accurate.
A Sherman tank can give you an... edge. - Oddball.
Last edited by BlitzPig_Machine; January 12th, 2004 at 06:36 AM.
I have other data concerning the Tiger II taken to Kubinka. Reading how the Soviets managed to wrestle 68 tons of dead weight back to Russian for testing is almost a comedy in itself.
It goes hand in hand with the story of the US encountering a Jagdtiger that broke down on a road and after spending 2 days trying to move the Jagdtiger, it was decided it would be easier to reroute the road around the Jagdtiger.
Well Blitz, I don't doubt the sources really, they're more reliable than the post-war "rumors-made-facts" about the Tiger II really.
I'm really sick of those, aswell as the suspicious tests and reports. Especially the ones found on the net. Don't get me wrong here, the Tiger II wasnt invincible at all but nor was it made out of plywood.
I agree with you about the logistics. It was easier to keep a few tanks running with the spare parts and time they got than trying to make all operational, still, Tiger II's fought well. IIRC 5 Tiger II's defended the Reichtag til the bitter end and they were, indeed, cut off from supplies.
Here be the facts as I see them (Seems kinda judgemental doesnt it?)
1) Tiger I's armor was a high nickel content steel which made it very strong and elastic. This means when a a/t round hits and fails to pentrate the armor can flex and not spall off on the inside. Panthers armor seems to also be of good quality early on.
2) The Maybach engine in the Tiger and Panther, once the bugs were worked out proved to be very reliable , if not maintenance prone. In the Panther the lighter vehicle weight gave a excellent power to weight ratio. In a Tiger I the vehicle was well powered but there was not alot of power reserve. Meaning that if a Tiger I became stuck or tried to tow another Tiger I the strain often casued the engine to fail.
3) The Germans, in an attemt to make the armor plate better able to withstand the heavier 122mm a/t penetrators and 122mm and 152mm shaped charge rounds tried to make a tougher face hardened steel armor plate. While its toughness is not in doubt the flexibility is and while not penetrated direct hits caused spalling which means the plate could not flex as much and the remaining energy casued the inside of the armor face to break off in a shower of high velocity shrapnel.
4) Late in the war and faced with a manpower shortage, the welding quality of the Tiger was either a) Of poor quality due to inexperienced welders b)Lack of suitable materials resulted in poor quality welding rods c) the new boron process resulted in a surface that the Germans hadnt counted on so some early production Tiger II's had some poor quality welds until the problems listed were worked out. d) The Germans were so rushed for the tanks that the welding job was rushed. And being someone who has experience welding you cant rush the job. The bead has to be applied in a smooth even manner.
Being how the war situation was maybe they were so rushed that the bugs never had time to be worked out.
5) While the Panther and Tiger ran well on the Maybach with the Tiger pushing the stress point, King Tiger went right over the line into the unreliable and breakdown prone areas. This could also be related to early production models as it was with the Tiger and Panther and later version were fixed. The even heavier Jagdtiger was a breakdown waiting to happen.
Well Blitz, I don't doubt the sources really, they're more reliable than the post-war "rumors-made-facts" about the Tiger II really.
I'm really sick of those, aswell as the suspicious tests and reports. Especially the ones found on the net. Don't get me wrong here, the Tiger II wasnt invincible at all but nor was it made out of plywood.
I agree with you about the logistics. It was easier to keep a few tanks running with the spare parts and time they got than trying to make all operational, still, Tiger II's fought well. IIRC 5 Tiger II's defended the Reichtag til the bitter end and they were, indeed, cut off from supplies.
I'm not trying to contradict you...just adding some data and my viewpoint is all. Data, especially historical data, is such a difficult thing to discuss. Everyone pulls out all sorts of stuff they have (which is cool because you find stuff you've NEVER even heard of) but there's always the "I read it so it must be true" factor, too.
I'm trying to take away anything from the King Tiger...it's truely impressive...but I think people in general are too willing to think that since it's an "improvement" to the Tiger it's better. And it's interesting in that the improvement is actually sort of a step back when you think of how many Panther's and Tiger's the King Tiger kept Germany from making.
Look at the Sherman. There are lots of reasons (not all of them good) why there wasn't a transition to the M26 earlier (lord knows they could have...how much shorter the war would have been with 20,000 M26's) one of the reasons was that the US did not want to take the time to switch major production lines from Sherman's to Pershings. Instead they looked at the loss of production during those months it would take to retool the major production lines and decided it wasn't worth it in terms of numbers. That's sad. Same reason the War Department had for no making P-38K's. Sad.
@Anlushac:
Yes that is mostly true, part from that the weight of the vehicle wasn't the biggest problem. Most breakdowns in mentioned circumstances were in the transmission that was designed for a 40 metric ton vehicle. Most of the Tiger II's engine fires were due to leaking seals and gaskets, as a result of the heavy workload and bombing raids at the factory and assembly plants.
This was also the case with the JagdTiger, turretless as it was it had to rely on moving the entire tank for aiming, something the transmission and tracks didnt like on a vehicle that heavy.
By the way, I don't entire agree with you about the armor, I'd say that the late-war Tiger IIs poor armour quality wasn't just becasue of the weld seams, but the poor quality of the metal itself, as they were low on manganese and had to use hard-carbon steel alloyed with nickel, making it far more brittle (especially along weld seams).
In my opinion 90% of these war-time-stories are at least exagerated, try to remember some details after 50 or 60 years... .
It´s not only the russian stories, but also most of the german stories of a single Tiger tank killing 10 or more enemy tanks...
Also, remember that the winners write the history books.
White Ninja Comics "Soul too dark for the abyss, aborted son of hell's six hundred and sixty six wombs, a being of pure HELL, sustained by the black umbilical, weaned on HELLMILK and nursed at the teat of ABBADON, whore-queen of FESTERIA." - Penny Arcade
I'm quite surprised that we, the ignorant mob, were asked about the M-26, haven't FH got some trustworthy facts people making sure things aren't going all unrealistic?
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