Deployable and/or Mobile Spawn points? Squad Leaders are getting bored...

[waylay00]

Originally Posted by Lobo

PR is PR and FH is FH, their solutions works fine in their mod and are nicely adapted to the kind of modern warfare they are showcasing, our solutions are diferent and imo are the best in a ww2 environment.

I know PR is PR, but the squad-specific rally point system would be fantastic in FH (its not specific to modern warfare either).

[Cadyshack]

Perhaps there can be a way of the Commander air dropping a spawn for only one squad to use (and have that option for all squads). Then, maybe a vehicle for the entire team so Lonewolfs don't get left out.

Also, make it so the SL has to request the spawn, so as not to abuse it for something like a push map (Alan Hafa, drop a spawn behind the flags at the start, or as a "precapping" measure).

PR's system is alright as well, and they have eliminated most of the glitching by making the RP spawn at the SL feet instead of where he is pointing. So then the SL would have to glitch, which is pretty hard to do.

[danshyu]

Originally Posted by Lobo

PR is PR and FH is FH, their solutions works fine in their mod and are nicely adapted to the kind of modern warfare they are showcasing, our solutions are diferent and imo are the best in a ww2 environment.

I understand that PR is PR and FH is FH. But anything that improves the fun factor without ruining the atmosphere should be considered. Otherwise why implement the squad system from BF2, since that wasn't in the original FH 42'.

[Lobo]

Because the new engine has new posibilities and we are using them, there are thousands things that we hated in FH1 but we didn't have the option to get rid of them, just an example: shoot when jumping, in BF2 we got it by default.

We discussed intensively the SL spwn and alternative options, we decided the native SL spawn is the best for the mod.

A good SL is not a SL who never dies, it's a man commanding his guys with wisdom and courage, sometimes he will die, others will get the trophy for his squad.

[danshyu]

A good SL is not a SL who never dies, it's a man commanding his guys with wisdom and courage, sometimes he will die, others will get the trophy for his squad.

That's kind of a wishful thinking, at least in public servers. At the moment, a squad leader that can find a safe and close spot near the flag to hide is way more valuable than one that leads the charge and direct the men first handed. Since on maps with spawn points that are far apart, if your squad leader get killed by carelessness or by luck. It's another 3+ miles of marching for whoever spawns afterward.

By having some sort of alternative spawns would actually encourage squad leaders to lead his men forward and direct fires, instead of cowering behind and yelling out orders in the dark. It would also encourage people to actually be squad leaders and organize his soldiers, since they wouldn't have to be forced into playing a game of hide and seek near the flags anymore. Both would in my opinion, lead to more positive gameplay experiences.

Finally let me paraphrase your own words, a good squad leader is a player who would lead his men with wisdom and courage. And both of which will be improved/encouraged when the squad leaders are more welling to go into actions with his men. Wisdom from the better sittuation awareness by being closer to the front. Courage from knowing that as long as he gave his squad good tactical directions, his death won't be that big of setback for his squad's progress.

[Billy Crook Foot]

I'd really like to squad deployable points as well.

There have been some really good points raised by a few people here regarding the advantages of a placeable spawnpoint. Squad leaders need to be having fun too, otherwise people just won't bother starting a squad if all they are going to do is spend their time trying to keep total strangers (or not) working together and end up basically just watching them have fun.

A couple of posters said that a good squad leader doesn't mind staying back and spotting targets. I think this type of player is probably more suited to ARTY support, sniping or even Commanding the team.

People have already dispelled the myth of glitching spawn points into walls etc. I also think people might like to remember that such a system will obviously be available to both teams. Sometimes it sounds like people are only considering the static (solo) defender against the rally-point-equipped attacker and all the obvious behind the lines shenanigans.

I think spawning at a flag should be removed altogether. The amount of spawncamping that was going on over the weekend was terrible. It reminded me of Vanilla BF2 about 2 years ago (APC camping the archway alley spawn in Karkand anyone?) and sadly I didn't feel like staying anymore.

How about not allowing spawn points within 200 metres of a flag. No more instant re-inforcements right when you need the flag capped? I think we all understand the problem that we are trying to avoid as it will f. up the game for everyone.
How about not allowing rally points inside buildings as well? What about no spawning on an SL for the exact same reasons as a rally point dropped next to a flag (instant reinforcements)? This would be good, if you get an enemy rally point, you KNOW you've just sent 6 guys back to main for the Long Walk ( instead of hunting down the SL before the squad respawns in 10 secs ).

There are other things that go along with placeable rally points which need to be considered at the same time. I have noticed that a lot of the maps in this release are designed to "funnel" the players into a head-to-head battle through the use of "out of bounds" red areas. Perhaps the devs want us to relive the battle as it played out in history - I like this idea in theory, but in game terms if your tactics are already decided and you are just playing them out, why have rally points. Needless to say, I don't like bottlenecks but neither do I like back flag capping (1 man in a jeep takes enemy HQ!!!). If there are going to be bottlenecks I'd prefer them to be because an enemy force is manning some static defences and giving me a beating every time I try and outflank them rather than - "we can't go there, it's out of bounds.." WTF!?). I was hoping to see more Push Mode Maps instead of the dreaded red-zone. But I digress, Rally Points lend themselves to bigger areas so that there is more squad manouvering / attack/defence/outflank/counter-attack. I think flags should be the prize, not the focus of a team fight. If you want the commander role to be fun, let them decide the team's tactics for a game across a truly open map and let the squads do the job. Combined arms everyone! If we all have to do what Rommel or Montgomery did, we don't needs commanders or squads. Lone Wolf (hate the term..)

I think the Devs have done a F. EXCELLENT job with the maps, statics, sounds, coding and presentation of FH2. I mean, REALLY good. It is just such a joy to enjoy the surroundings and just listen to the reload sound on the K98. I laughed out loud in joy (irl) when I came across a field kitchen. I like the improvements to tank combat. And even the little things like your movement moves the rear part of the rifle sight to give the illusion of sway.

I like the mod very much and want to see it go on from strength to strength. FPS games (conquest mode) however to need to evolve along with the graphics. SQUADS and VOIP, PUSH MODE and RALLY POINTS (with conditions obviously) are part of this evolution for mutli-player games.

Thanks again for your pretty special efforts and I hope the gameplay will improve as much as the "vibe".

[McNamara]

Originally Posted by McGibs

We left it as is because we really couldnt come up with a better alternative at the time. Any kind of squad leader deployed point easily lends itself to abuses (hiding it inside statics, putting it on roofs where no one can get up to it, etc etc)

APC spawnpoints are an area to explore, but putting a squad leader inside a tank works better

I always try to get a tank when I'm FTL so my FT can have a safer and more mobile spawn point. Too bad my FT rarely actually spawn on me though...

I love the spawn system in PR and would be all for a similar approach in this mod. And I don't buy the excuse that it could be abused, just restrict it in ways you see fit and there should be no problem.

[Exel]

To make being Commander more attractive:
Make the Commander see the same artillery spots that field gun operators do. That way he can respond to arty requests better (people rarely use the commander arty request even if it's the only type of arty available) and more importantly doesn't have to fire blind.

To make being Squad Leader more attractive:
Give the Squad Leader a deployable spawn point that frees him from the hiding but is yet easy enogh for the enemy to spot and destroy. Maybe a color-smoke grenade (droppable only) that produces a 10-foot plume of orange smoke. That would give the spawn point a good reason to expire after some time too, after which the Squad Leader would have to deploy another one.

[waylay00]

Originally Posted by Exel

To make being Commander more attractive:
Make the Commander see the same artillery spots that field gun operators do. That way he can respond to arty requests better (people rarely use the commander arty request even if it's the only type of arty available) and more importantly doesn't have to fire blind.

To make being Squad Leader more attractive:
Give the Squad Leader a deployable spawn point that frees him from the hiding but is yet easy enogh for the enemy to spot and destroy. Maybe a color-smoke grenade (droppable only) that produces a 10-foot plume of orange smoke. That would give the spawn point a good reason to expire after some time too, after which the Squad Leader would have to deploy another one.

Or just make a static object (tent or something similar) and use it as a rally point.

[Exel]

Originally Posted by waylay00

Or just make a static object (tent or something similar) and use it as a rally point.

The smoke grenade would essentially be a static object acting as a rally point, I just made the smoke grenade up as an example of the sort of item that could represent the spawn point. A grenade is small enough to not block anything (like alleys) and the colored smoke works as a brilliant excuse for the spawn point: signal smoke for calling in reinforcements. On the other hand the plume of smoke makes the spawn point visible to the enemy, minimizing the chances of it being exploited by hiding it someplace the enemy can't find it.