Deployable and/or Mobile Spawn points? Squad Leaders are getting bored...

[waylay00]

Yeah, good idea. It might be a little TOO easy to find though.

[Billy Crook Foot]

It is fairly easy to determine the location of an enemy spawn point - just work out the direction they keep coming from. 90% of players always make a bee-line straight from spawn to the next objective without trying to mislead the opposition.

With the new spotting and accurate artillery (compared to Fh1) rally points won't last long once discovered.

[Strumtrupp]

Originally Posted by [WOLF] Ionizer

I've wondered why the devs didn't change the "Scan," "UAV," and "Vehicle Drop" commander options into something more "WWII-ish."

I agree, well with the UAV thing. In Panzers you could call a Storch and see the units that it flew over.
Not as good as a UAV but better then nothing.

As it stands now, no one wants to be the commander because of a lack of options. 75% of games I play we have no commander and we lose because of no arty and no supplies. Maybe by giving the commander more options, more people would want to be a commander.

The problem there is that the commander needs a good team in order to get enough points.
In the stat topic I had suggested basing the players skill points gained off of the stats of the commander. Since the commander does not get points for kills made by the others and only for actual goals achieved, players would be forced to do stuff that gets the commander points first and then later they are rewarded.

If no one plays correctly no one gets points. If no one plays commander, no one gets points.

@Billy Crook Foot:
You are correct on many points but also, well not so quite 100%.
Only backbase spawning: I agree but we would need to add more possibilities for players to get back into action.

PR had good ideas with their spawn thingie but a) it really did turn into a rape festival and b) there were always flags that were spawnable and capturable and thus the rapeage was simply postponed.

I had suggested making the spawns destroyable ala BoB/BtR
The rapeage often occurs because of the chicken-egg problem related with flag points. You need to send people into the flag area to get the flag. But the defenders will spawn at the flag and attack the defenders. Add to that the unwillingness of players to sacrifice their uber-leet kill/death ratio just to help out thier fellow player so they just sit back and join the rest of the team in camping.

Same people would probably be able to take down a destroyable spawn in no time flat.

Also I had suggested not placing the spawns next to the darn flags. In the map suggestion thread I had suggested placing the spawns one defensive row back from the controlling flag.
Check out the thread for other details.

[mach1muscle351]

I say british get gliders, and germans get bunkers to spawn out of lol.

[WhiskeySix]

Voted yes.

For the record, I hate the pace of PR and despite trying several times, just can't get into it... I do play PoE2 a lot though (PoE2 tester and BFx admin at TG). I only say this because I'm not a PR fanboy, and don't want this suggestion to sound like were trying to PRify FH2. Anyway, I'm a HUGE supporter of deployable spawn points, and here's why:

1) No revives. Leading a sustained infantry-based attack on a flag is VERY difficult because it's 5 on 6 most of the time - since the FTL really has to be careful and only engage defensively (most of the time - of course he can participate in the assault, but it's a huge risk)


2) Lethality. Unlike vBF2 and PoE2, just about everything one-shot-kills infantrymen. Whether it's artillery, fire from downrange armor, or just OpFor soldiers, the FH2 battlefield is a very dangerous place to party.

When you combine those two, it's VERY hard to sustain a pure infantry assault. I acknowledge that there are plenty of ways to adapt to the current dynamic, but nearly all of them require heavy teamwork and/or armor. It seems the pure infantry vs. infantry firefights are a lot rarer and shorter when they do happen.

If future releases include more infantry-focused maps (crosses fingers), I'd highly recommend some kind of alternative spawn-point system. (or a thicker helmet for FTL's )

Implementation suggestion:
I'd like to see FTL's kit come with one, non-resupplyable, deployable spawn point. It would be something they can drop on the ground, allowing allow all FT members to spawn there. I don't know what the metaphor would be for the object, but I don't think the 'reality' aspect of it is as important as it's function (gameplay > realism). The pile of rucksacks PR uses makes sense I guess... Small bivouac/tent might make sense too...

As I said, I think they'd mainly be used to help attack a CP. Thus they wouldn't need to be resupplied... or perhaps they could only be resupplied at the flag pole or something. I'd also suggest they be restricted in how close they are to a friendly flag. Defenders have two spawn points - the flag and the FTL. Attackers only have one, so I'd suggest the deployable-spawn-point not have any restriction on how closely it's deployed to an enemy flag.

I also think the deployable spawn point should be locked to a fireteam. You shouldn't be able to spawn at another FT's spawn point on the map.

[Exel]

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

Implementation suggestion:
I'd like to see FTL's kit come with one, non-resupplyable, deployable spawn point. It would be something they can drop on the ground, allowing allow all FT members to spawn there. I don't know what the metaphor would be for the object, but I don't think the 'reality' aspect of it is as important as it's function (gameplay > realism). The pile of rucksacks PR uses makes sense I guess... Small bivouac/tent might make sense too...

Signal smoke grenade!

[Billy Crook Foot]

I don't really think it has anything to do with making FH2 like PR or blah blah....

We are really discussing conquest mode mechanics and how to improve the game for everyone. As SturmTrupp rightly pointed out, the basic gametype is flawed... People are attacking the exact same area that people are spawning into. Of course it leads to spawn rape. People like to bag CS, but hey, at least both teams start at different ends of the map.

Nobody should ever see anybody else spawn under any conditions. Good points made above, people don't want to attack because somebody might spawn in right behind them and then they have to travel all the way back from main again (unless they have a "rare as hen's teeth" SL hiding in a ditch). The best case scenario is they can shoot some poor player who just spawned in.

Games have come along and BF2 allows us to move the spawning mechanism (whatever it is) out of the firing line so that people (everyone) will have more fun and less spawn death. Even EA realised this with spawn beacons (half way imporvement over flag spawning).

As it is, infantry is understrength and has a hard time against armour. Inf needs to work together to have a chance. The best defence against armour is another tank, a static (sweet 88s) or a plane. I hope FH2 beefs up the infantry squad work options by considering gameplay alternatives.

I realise that we are trying to simulate mass infantry attacks (and their slaughter) but the mas size of a team is 32 players. Take off a few for commander, arty, pilots and tanks and you're realistically looking at a maximum of 20 infantry rushing a flag. Not sure how "Massed" that is when facing a hull-down tank and a couple of MG emplacements.

[Archimonde0_0]

Entrenching Tool that Digs a Tunnel from one Point to another like in BFV my suggestion

[OneTinSoldier]

I agree about the Commanders position being pretty boring right now. In Vanilla BF2 you were kept pretty busy. In FH2... pfttt, yawn.... zzzzz.

[kilroy0097]

If I were to choose a spawn point that was outside the normal capture points or on the FTL I can really only think of one that has a realistic twist on it. A troop transport truck. This is the truck with the canvas top on the back. Or perhaps one of those trucks with an open top and the MG mounts on front and back. The Germans do have normal trucks as well. There is also the choice of using a jeep/car. My reasons are as follows.

- It is a physical object that must be driven into a location. Therefore it can not be exploited by being inside static objects or on top of roofs. It can only go where a vehicle can go.
- It is a visible object that at the same time can blend into the surroundings if parked smartly. It's a bit tall but it can still be parked next to tall walls. Can't be used in maps with just sand bags though as it's a big honking target in desert terrain maps.
- They can be easily destroyed with a couple of grenades or some MG fire.

The alternative for both British and Germans are the light armored vehicles. There is that fast moving low profile track vehicle that carries 6. It has a single MG on the front right. The Germans have the half track vehicle with the MG on the front and back. Both resist small arms fire without issue and can even take a few grenade attacks however can still be taken down by AT gun or any sort of demolitions. This may be the better vehicle to choose for the large maps that a movable spawn point is best for.

Maps like that small town urban assault map on the Med. do not need spawn vehicles. The cap points are close enough already for immediate urban infantry combat.

The only other acceptable ideas I read about was a commander dropped spawn point looking like crate that is a different color from the normal supply box or another object like a pallet of supplies with some parachute cloth on it. The other would be a piloted one time use glider or plane that comes in and lands and then becomes a spawn point but I don't really know if they used gliders in the African campaign.

[Cheesy]

A suggestion on how to stop glitches such as putting things into statics. It requires the mapper of all maps put a small dome inside all large statics. Similar to the out of bounds that has a similar effect to the out of bounds thing save perhaps a shorter timer if possible. This cause people who glitch there spawn points into these statics to well.. Die once they spawn inside yes? A simple suggestion that perhaps could be looked into.

[Billy Crook Foot]

Bump for poll.

How is the Squad play on your favourite server?

Teamplay, i.e. planes hitting tanks on request, spotters for arty and commander jobs seems to be okay but I am not really seeing the tight squads I was hoping for...

Before I get attacked by a fanboy for never posting anything positive I'll make the following statements. I think the graphics, statics, sounds, atmospherics and map settings of the game are really superb. All the basic building blocks are here for a great team based game. I am just hoping that squad work gets a bit of a "leg-up" as I think it will help the "teamwork" and general quality of the games we can all enjoy.

So, trying to keep this suggestion alive.

Enjoy.

[Helo]

I currently like the current squad leader setup and I end up playing squad leader 99% of the time. However, in a game about scoring, the squad leader should share in some of the spoils of his squad. When assaulting a point I rarely get cap points because I am hanging back so I think the squad leader should get a percentage or a set amount when his team caps a point.

That would help provide additional incentives.

[Real-BadSeed]

I see tons of teamwork where i play, maybe not always, but thats the nature of the game.

If your idea of teamwork is only tight squads, than you have a skewed idea of what teamwork is.. People can play in a coordinated fashion, without following eachother around in tight groups.

On defence, personally i want my teammates spread out and covering the whole front. Not bunched up in tight groups.

On offence, I see lots of squad based attacks, infact you cant really succeed in FH2 without such support. Unless you manage to get to an undefended flag. (unlikely, but does happen)

[Hawk_345]

Well this is a valid point about the SL staying back, if we are talking realism here then its not realistic at all to have a Sl stay back and people magically apear on him, so a Vehical such as a suport truck or jeep acting as a spawn point could be viewed as "this truck has brought reinforcements from homebase" type of thing. as for deployable points, it could work like it did in the old version of PR, but im not so sure.