Any tank that I drive can already go underwater. It's just that it doesn't last very long.
I've gotten tanks to fly as well (the notorious 2006 WOLF tank-launch-fest -- we got so good at it that we could pretty well aim where the things were going to land, halfway across the map.)
(Come to think of it, devs, *please* include the deployable machine gun - tank launching bug in FH2. *beg*)
the tanks won't have much targets when dive underwater
I do not recall saying anything about it 'having targets underwater'. However, I do have some actual objections which I believe justify my view:
FH2 will be a realism mod, and in reality, a tank could not just sit underwater for eternity. Well, it could, but it wouldn't be very healthy for the crew, which only survived if the tank got out of the water relatively quickly.
Would you be very happy if you damaged a tank by a river with your Sherman and it just fled into the river where you couldn't hurt it, and then re-emerged once you'd been destroyed or driven off? Doesn't sound like a very good and balanced way to play the game if you ask me, unless you also implement planes or destroyers with depth charges, mines and sub nets for balance's sake.
Likewise, what about driving alongside a river and suddenly being ambushed from behind by u-tanks that had been lurking underwater, biding their time until a spotted report told it an Allied tank was on its way?
This sounds like scenarios out of some bizarre futuristic world, certainly not real-world World War II. Is that really the type of game-play we want in FH2?
Wow, those pics are pretty sweet i must admit. I could see a great map with these tanks in it, could do a historically accurate one as well as perhaps a map along the lines of Alpenfestung (ie. not real).
The focus of this topic reminds me of that FH map where the German forces were equipped with night-vision equipment (including their tanks and half-tracks).
I do not recall saying anything about it 'having targets underwater'. However, I do have some actual objections which I believe justify my view:
FH2 will be a realism mod, and in reality, a tank could not just sit underwater for eternity. Well, it could, but it wouldn't be very healthy for the crew, which only survived if the tank got out of the water relatively quickly.
Would you be very happy if you damaged a tank by a river with your Sherman and it just fled into the river where you couldn't hurt it, and then re-emerged once you'd been destroyed or driven off? Doesn't sound like a very good and balanced way to play the game if you ask me, unless you also implement planes or destroyers with depth charges, mines and sub nets for balance's sake.
Likewise, what about driving alongside a river and suddenly being ambushed from behind by u-tanks that had been lurking underwater, biding their time until a spotted report told it an Allied tank was on its way?
This sounds like scenarios out of some bizarre futuristic world, certainly not real-world World War II. Is that really the type of game-play we want in FH2?
Safe Keeper, about point 1. I pretty much answered this one already in two of my previous posts. Please read those posts, ok? Great.
Point 2. Well, If that tank can do that then perhaps you should try adjusting your tactics. Or better yet simply drive off he cant wait there forever. Or you could make it so that you can still fire at the tank while its underwater.
Point 3. Even if someone does that then i do think you should get the idea after the first time that you should watch out near the water. :lol:
"In war, there are many moments for compassion and tender action, and there are many moments for ruthless action. What is often called 'ruthless' may, in many circumstances, be only clarity: seeing clearly what there is to be done, and doing it. Directly. Quickly. Awake." -- Col. Walter E. Kurtz
Last edited by Pietje; May 18th, 2007 at 01:47 AM.
Am I totally off my rocker here, or have I completely failed to ever read any account of diving tanks being used in combat? It was my conviction that all Tauchpanzer, from the Pz.III variant to the Tiger's operational "diving" capability were either purely experimental or incidental (i.e. they could do it, but didn't under fire.)
I'm unsure about amphibious tanks (that famous pic of the Pz.III crossing the bug was not under fire, as one of the axishistoryforum posters correctly points out -- just look at the dudes standing around, gawking) but as with the above, I believe that the Germans never, or only rarely used amphibious tanks for actual crossings of any body of water under combat conditions. While several units were issued water-capable variants, I am pretty sure these were just deployed as normal tanks.
I wouldn't want to see anything this exotic and historically unclear in FH2 until other stuff (DD Shermans) is sorted.
I'm assuming that these tanks couldn't just drive into the water, surely there were some adjustments needed to be made before submerging?
If they could just emerge from the water with guns blazing (which I find really hard to believe but then again, I don´t know that much about WW2 era tanks), they would have probably been used a lot more, and we would have some evidence of this tactic being used in combat.
I'm assuming that these tanks couldn't just drive into the water, surely there were some adjustments needed to be made before submerging?
If they could just emerge from the water with guns blazing (which I find really hard to believe but then again, I don´t know that much about WW2 era tanks), they would have probably been used a lot more, and we would have some evidence of this tactic being used in combat.
Well, if you find that hard to believe then it might be a good idea to search for proof. Its better then just assuming things. I can tell you that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Bunny
I'm unsure about amphibious tanks (that famous pic of the Pz.III crossing the bug was not under fire, as one of the axishistoryforum posters correctly points out -- just look at the dudes standing around, gawking) but as with the above, I believe that the Germans never, or only rarely used amphibious tanks for actual crossings of any body of water under combat conditions. While several units were issued water-capable variants, I am pretty sure these were just deployed as normal tanks.
Well, in that case there is unfortunaly little point in adding them. I have to admit however that submersible tanks are rather interesting. Apparantly that the reason that they where not used in combat was that the tank would be rather vulnerable leaving the water.
Quote:
I wouldn't want to see anything this exotic and historically unclear in FH2 until other stuff (DD Shermans) is sorted.
Ughh, lets Normandy 1944 in general out of for FH2 for a LOOOOONG time. Preferably after all other theaters are completed. Instead lets focus on other amphibious vehicles such as the Russian T-40, for example. Or the German LWS (LandWasserSchlepper).
"In war, there are many moments for compassion and tender action, and there are many moments for ruthless action. What is often called 'ruthless' may, in many circumstances, be only clarity: seeing clearly what there is to be done, and doing it. Directly. Quickly. Awake." -- Col. Walter E. Kurtz
Last edited by Pietje; May 18th, 2007 at 02:46 AM.
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