No "Player Radar"
 

And i say a good day to you all,

A tip: Kill the player radar, that is used in BF2, ( that thing in the uppercorner to the right) , a map is fine

It spoils the WW2 game experience,if you can see the players around you!

Greeting,

Elwood

:beer:

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

It needs to stay in order to prevent teamkills, and increase teamwork, meaning one can see friendly positions, so you can flank where needed. Also, players will need to be able to see spotted enemy units.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

The 13th Raptor,

Also a good day to you,

Preventing TK's is a matter of skill;) , and spotting friendly/enemy positions is really the task for the "scout", and he/she gives that info to his/her teammates.

In WW2 the Axis/Allies Gi's didn't have "map radar"that they could use for "flanking", and i thought that Forgotten Hope is trying to be as "real" as possibel.

Greetings,

Elwood

( why is my typing now in a darker colour:rolleyes: )

:beer:

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Maybe just limit the radar a little.

Example: commanders can see all friendly units, squad leaders can see all friendly units and have their squad in a color diffrent from the normal friendly color, squad members can only see squad mates on the mini map. Also squad leaders, commanders, scouts could still spot enemy units for all friendlies.

Then if it is somehow possible, have tank commander and pilot kits with the ability to see all friendly units to prevent a lot of serious TKs. Then tanks/planes should be locked to all but tankers/pilots and arm these classes with only a pistol.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of restraint. And most players lack it. As for scouts giving this info to their teammates, how do you propose they do this? With typing? Telepathy? The bf1942 spotting system was crap, and that of bf2 is perfect. I could be altered a little, but it should remain largely the same.




In wwII soldiers didn’t run around with 0 coordination either, tanks didn’t drive out into enemy held territory by themselves, aircraft wouldn’t fly randomly around friendly airspace buzzing friendly troops. This is something FH cant fix, and should compensate for.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

raptor, remember that people will learn to play without a minimap. Just imagine you getting kicked from 5 servers because of tk's... now, even an average moron would learn to think before shooting.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

[quote=

In wwII soldiers didn’t run around with 0 coordination either, tanks didn’t drive out into enemy held territory by themselves, aircraft wouldn’t fly randomly around friendly airspace buzzing friendly troops. This is something FH cant fix, and should compensate for.[/quote]

True..,and the rest not......:D

:beer:

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

I'm with Raptor on this.

To constantly go through the double motions of "should I or shouldn't I" shoot takes the fun out of the game.

As far as realisticness goes, don't you think soliders in WWII had an idea of sorts who was in the field ahead of them, on their flanks, to the back?? Maybe not always but I think they had more than an inkling.

The way you spawn in this game negates having some of that realistic information so I think the way BF2/current FH does it is just fine.

Tags set low, only spotted enemies appearing on the map and your team mates works for me.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

And this is so VERY TRUE:bows:



:beer:

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

You thought wrong, I'm afraid. FH2 is about being realistic but balancing it with gameplay. The weapons, vehicles etc will be realistic, but certain gameplay aspects will remain unrealistic in order to make the game fun.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Red Orchestra plays alright without the minimap.
It amy also get rid of the sort of players you dont want playing, and atract some you do.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

I thought wrong,well "darn" or as we say here in Holland, GVD:mad:
True that it is very imported that the game is a little bit unrealistic for the fun( HEY, that's why we play the game.....)
But personally , i don't see the "fun" in that BF2 radar/map, i want to see the map sure, but i don't want to see other players on it, that my ( personal) point.

Greetings,

Elwood

:beer:

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

I agree, in real life you have more of a 'feel' for who is around you and where. You also know where you are relative to all the objects around you. That cannot be simulated very well in an FPS. This is what the radar is for.

Although I would agree that this should not extend more than about 30-40 meters in all directions.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

If you want full realism (which I personally love) play XWW2. They have eliminated friendly tanks from the mini-map, making being a tanker take actual experience. You gotta get on top of your tank, check the sighted tank with binocs, make sure its enemy, then fire. Fucking awesome

Although FH could stand for some improvement in realism (how the hell does a T-34take a 88mm to the front and LIVE...how does ANY TANK take a 88mmto the front and live for that matter)eliminating the mini-map would not be advisable for this game. XWW2 is for elitest like myself, who actually know how to tell enemy from friendly at 5 rids away. FH has, and always will have noobs though, since its a much more popular game, and nlike FH, is very forgiving.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

See own = yes, See spotted = no. In BF2 you see where spotted enemy is altough it wouldn't be visible anymore which doesn't make sense to me. Also not every soldier carried a radio so it's stupid if a pilot on the other side of the map sees exactly where the enemy is going. I like how it works in FH 0.7 right now. "Enemy Armour Spotted!" "Requesting Air Support". Pilot arrives and if armour is well hidden he needs to make one or two passes to spot the exact location to bomb (instead of seeing a blinking red tank in the radar).

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Is there not a button to turn off your mini map? If its just a personal taste thing..turn it off! there you go its all relastic now.

I'd hate not having radar, the TK's would be very high me thinks. Hell I've been shot and shot enough teammates in RO to know no radar isnt always that good! haha

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

On the map in BF2, we've some little red point , red tanks point, etc..., for ennemies troops , why not like in WW2, little war style point and tank division style point ?? for realisitic and fun !http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/4657/logotx8.jpg

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

It should stay, all that should change is that the spot only marks the position of the vehicle when it was spotted, and the direction it was facing, and doesn’t track the vehicle for the duration of the spot. Also, the spotting function could come with a random inaccuracy of about 20 meters.

This should work well enough, because even though not every soldier carried a radio, if he saw a tiger tank parked up next to a house, he'd be damn sure to tell his superior, which would then contact air support, or his superiors for assistance. Players are not that organized, so it should be a function available for all.

I cant say I agree with your opinion on the bf1942 spotting system, because i found it absolutely useless. It gave no range or directional information what so ever. Your player arrow just flashed, a message came up in the tiny buffer with only your current grid as information.

"Sergeant Johnson, this is high command, where did you see the tank formation and where are they headed?"

"This is Johnson, I’m near the D4 house!"

"But where is the tank column? We have critical supplies moving trough this area!"

"I’m in D4 god damnit!"

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Would be amazing if the squad system could be brought to this too now that you kind of mentioned it Raptor. If some grunt in a squad would spot something it would be shown to his squad members only. If squad leader would spot it it would be shown to commander and other squad leaders too.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

That could work, but it wouldn’t be useful enough to my taste, if I see a tank moving across the river and spot it, I find it highly unlikely that my squad has any use for that information. Also, I can imagine that it would be quite common for a SL to be busy with other things, and by the time he goes to check for himself so the Commander and other SL's can see the spot, the unit has already moved off. Now take into account that other squad leaders need to spot each of the spotted units for themselves before their squaddies can see it.. it makes for a very elaborate system that just wouldn’t work most of the time due to several factors.

So I have to stick with my original suggestion, spotted units only leave a mark on the map where they were when they were spotted, with some random inaccuracy thrown in. Your suggestion would be more realistic in some ways, not so much in other ways, but as far as gameplay is concerned it is just not practical.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Im totally opposed to any type of change to the minimap. It would just result in a bunch of people using it as an excuse for team killing. If you like total realism go play RO.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

There could be a way to see where friendlies were (approximately) using a special type of map. I believe it's already in use with Cretan Village, where it's got a lot of stuff on the side. The idea would be, only people within about a 50 foot radius would be on your map, but there would be strategic arrows, lines showing friendly and enemy defensive positions. This also opens up new avenues of battle, with enemies flanking and taking positions behind the troops without the troops even realizing. When the troops retreat, they find for some reason guns from their own base are firing on them...

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

First off, this is WW2. I can guarantee you that friendly fire happened a HELL of a lot more than any country wants or cares to admit. Removal of the map would be a bad idea though because this IS a game. That being said someone being able to see the enemy on the map would be a bad idea unless the spotter actualy had a radio & the time to transmit that info to other forces that had radios or were in close contact with someone that had a radio.

Anyone ever thought of doing something like handsignals or perhaps being able to draw on the map like in Gu1ld wars. Pretty neet stuff.

What gets me is these peeps that somehow think that not FTKing is helpfull to their team. I always FTK EVEN when I dont realy want to as long as it wasnt intentional, like shooting me in an un-cap. Its counter productive to deny your team of a player for almost a minit because someone thinks they are Gods gift to gaming. If you dont FTK, dont talk crap about teamwork because you obviously dont know what that is. All I have to say to these peeps is "Grow the hell up". As far as these same peeps sayin "LOOK at the map", well I dont know if its just my old ass puter or what but I have BATTLESHIPS disapear on my map all the time so a disapearing friendly grunt on my map would be even harder to notice though I have caught a friendly grunt disapear from time to time on my map. Does anyone know what does this? It usualy happens when they are around a white flag but not all the time.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

People wouldn't randomly kill friendlies in FH either... but the thing is FF happened a lot durring WW2. Radar removal is a good idea. It will make communicating more important.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Indeed, because we all know WWII soldiers relied upon text messaging to get their information across to the squad.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

And pubbies cant communicate very well...

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

And FH cares more about pubbies so that's why we have to start modding FH to make it more realistic ;)

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

I find the simple minimap that allows players to point out enemies they've spotted far closer to realism than bascially shouting:

Bob: "Sniper!"
Chuck: "were is he?"
Bob: "D5"
Chuck: "were in D..."
Sniper [Scoped K98] Chuck

If DICE ever implements a system in which I can hear:

"Enemy Panzer III spotted, 2 clicks north down the main road."
or
"Sniper! 2nd floor, 3rd window in the corner building on the left hand side of the street!"
.............
and it not be in a nasely high 12 year olds viop voice, then maybe we might not need the minimap. Until then, the minimap's the best we got.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

The Philadelphia experiment?

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

ROFLMAO! STHU Karl ;) Im not jokeing, the whole ship just disappears off my radar for about 10 to 15 seconds then pops back up! FIrst few times I saw it I thought that it was sunk but it pops back up & keeps on trucking. MUCH easier to notice this than a little arrow hidden under some flag or even out in the wide open that happens to just disapear at about the most inopportune time you can think of.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Real soldiers were far better trained than FH players and the real WWII happened at a much slower pace than FH. The minimap is an essential tool that seeks to correct both: our lack of skill and the stupid-fast pace of the game.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

It's not really anyones (but your own) fault that you do not have/use a headset with a microphone. And it would certainly be silly to tailor the game ater your shortcomings.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Thank the gods mics have not become the primary mode of communication for most gamers. I'd rather not be surrounded by gruffy-looking 20+ year old marines with nasal 12 year old voices.:rolleyes:

Load them manly marine voices into bite size clips and letting the spotting commence.:lookaround:

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

The 12 year old voice thing really is getting old. I regularly use VOIP when playing BF2 and other games, and have been doing so for about three years. Only once have I ever encountered a high pitched annoying voice. It really gets blown out of proportion by people with one or two bad experiences.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

I like what voice communication does to reduce people's anonymity online and thus drasticly reduce their perchance to behave very rudely to each other.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

its needed for spotting, but I agree, the hud needs revamping for realism and immersion.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

As always the eternal debate raw realism vs. adapted realism. In the game we lack sensorial information, we have language barriers that those soldiers hadn't, the systems to communicate are not perfect in this game, we don't study complicated troop movements before the battle, we have not hundreds or thousands players to have soldiers just dedicated to communication and logistic duties, etc, etc, etc.

And RO is not like BF, RO is a skirmish fought in a limited space, BF are battles played in huge maps usually, nobody gets lost in a RO map, just with visual inspection is easy to locate the friendly units, in a BF map we need more information about friendly units to recreate the feeling of a real battle, and organize our movements to play good tactical battles and not just run in circles like headless chickens.

So as always you fail in a mistake, "real soldiers hadn't minimap and blinking icons", yeah, indeed, but without those abstractions we can't fight battles with a realistic feeling.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Good points Lobo.

I might add that one thing not brought up in this discussion so far is screen resolution. The resolution of the game is a far cry from the "resolution" of the human eye.

In real life we have visibility of miles. Even if a soldier is a couple hundred yards out we can still see the color of the uniform, the helmet and other visual recognition features. In game however a person at that distance is a black nondescript poly.

The minimap lets us see where on the grid that tiny black poly is, what direction the arrow is pointing, and compensates for us in being able to detrmine to fire or not.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

here are my thoughts..

1.) keep the enemy spotted icons on the map.. they only last a few seconds and i think they are valuable in teamwork and communication..

2.) get rid of the HUD map (amongst other things on the hud).. make the player have to pull out the map (i hear most of them will resemble hand drawn maps) using the "m" key.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

That is (not only in my opinion) one of the biggest flaws of RO.
Once the squads are shattered, theres NO WAY you could ever get the teams together in RO since you never can tell where they are.
In real war, people didnt run around like headless chickens, as theres always certain command structures.

I say, get rid of the Minimap.
You should be able to see the Map (icl. friendly units) when you hit M, as it is now.
That would also require you to take a save position to look at the map
and see where you are.
That would make it a whole lot more realistic and enforces tactical playing.

JW

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

That's just a lame comment really. Because you have some personal problem with 12 year olds you suggest the best method of communication is bad? And because you have this problem, does that mean that us mature gamers who does not have such an exagerated view of the world should suffer from that? Voice communication is efficient, quick and very well done in BF2. ANY half decent clan uses voice communication, because it beats both typing and using lame general emotes.

I hope you were joking and I do not have to explain why voice communication is the best way of communicating if you want to play as a team.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

i dont mind friendlies showing on radar(although ultra unrealistic), i can live with that. because you would have info relaying friendly positions.

but what i hate about BF2, and will determine if i play FH2 at all is,... if enemies can be "lit up" on radar.
Americas Army did it the way it should be done,... you can mark on the minimap where you saw enemies by placing a dot on the minimap, using the enemy spotted function(same as BF2). but it doesnt actually show you where the enemy is, or track his movements. it just shows where you saw him.

so if you see a guy over by the barn, you can point out with a marker on the minimap that you saw an enemy by the barn, without it working like a minimap hack actually tracking the enemies movements.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

:agreed

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Yeah that's great.

I'm serious I like these ideas, for people like US. We would do this, we would play more tactical, because we already do. The people posting in these threads, or this forum for that matter are not the bunnyhoppers, we're not the arty pixel aimers.

The people we play against are. It is them who will never bring up "M" to see if that guy in their sights is a friendly or not. It is them who will shoot at anything not obviously a friendly. I don't think people even realize how many of the pubbies don't know one sides uniform from the other. They get so excited when somebody is in their crosshair, even at close range, they shoot.

I like these suggestions and this discussion is good but to implement some of these good ideas only makes us pay the price in the end. The FH gaming experience is only as good as the dumbest person on the server.

US = Get intel, then shoot.
THEM = Shoot first, ask questions later.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

THEM = Figuring out that it´d be smart to think before shooting, after being kicked for the 50th time.

JW

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Perhaps. I like these ideas as I said, maybe I'm just overly cynical about pubbies.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

When I am snipping I do not want my position given away from radar. That is my problem with radar. The commanders go out of their way to artilry me. I like the idea of people reporting locations just not having the commander having the all seeing eye. It is too noobish to have peoples location always known. EA did that to make the game more watered down for the masses. Great Idea!

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Ey so I'm a pubby, because I don't play in a clan. So this makes me a less skiller player, nice generalization J/K

Well perhaps I'm not a clanner, but a squadron member. I mostly play the game with 1, 2 or 3 other people over teamspeak (one more is going to join us though when he gets his puter fixed!). All using the (NL) tag in case someone has seen me online or one of the others online and are wondering about that tag :P

Anyway, I sometimes make tk's when thinking someone is an enemy on long range. With the rendering capabilities of the bf42 engine it's sometimes hard to distinguis uniforms on range even with the help of the minimap. This chance will increase when they pickup the enemy kit (and helmet, not in bf2) and start shooting. I hear the weapon see this enemy helmet fellow, and also happen to see some other friendlies near it and think "WTH ENEMY, BUDDIES IN DANGER --> BAM TK".

Enemy-friendly vehicles aren't that much of a problem for me, but some people just don't think before shooting I guess.

---------------
This is what happened to me a few days back on nordwind. German leaves stug (on fire). I shoot said german and take his repairkit, fix stug and set off in the direction where our Jumbo was (tree border, north of the south flag).

The Tiger was threatening our Jumbo and he was having trouble, so I outflank this Tiger on it's flank and start blasting. Me being in full view of mr.Jumbo aiming at the Tiger (I was perhaps 10 meters from the tiger flank, advancing closer with each shot). I destroy the Tiger (with the help of one zooka) and head off in the direction of the south flag (got 3 infantry support which cought up to me at this moment)
Next thing I know I get a shell in my rear from mr.Jumbo, I die and two of my support men gets a coax in his head from mr.Jumbo, before he relised that we we're friendlies :rolleyes:
---------------

But seeing enemies on the minimap in bf2, hmm I haven't seen it ingame yet, since I don't own the game (just played the demo and thought: "k, FH time")

I like the way Josey Wales said it best: Remove the minimap so it's not an instant situation report about the surroundings, and introduce this full screen map to use when in safety. That other system to see enemies on this map (radio:enemy spotted, *last know location and perhaps type of enemy marked on map for 60secs or something*) would also be very nice to see

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Now I didn't mean it that way. Maybe I phrased that wrong. Just trying to refer to the people who don't care about the same things we do and don't take part of these forums. The majority of BF players. We're all looking for the better game, the better experience. They just want to kill shit while they n00b all over the map.

Re: No "Player Radar"
 

Agreed there commander spotting should be nerfed. The commander seeing every enemy on the map at all times is pretty lame. Though I must admit an entire arty strike devoted to one sniper is pretty funny to see.:lol:

But if a grunt spotted you... You may need more leaves on your gillie suit.