Make tanks, tanks!

[RexRaptor]

Right now, in FH, tanks are more-less unfeared. I mean truely, any map with an engineer or AT kit as one of the spawnable classes, tanks are just really slow armored cars. AT Kits like the Bazooka, Piat, ect...shouldn't be spawnable. They were not given to each infantry-men on the battlefied. So, make them pickup-kits *only*. This will give tanks the fear-factor they need and deserve. However, there is one Rocket-AT Kit that was produced in (comparatively) extremely large amounts: The Panzerfaust. This should be the only Rocket-AT Kit that one could spawn as. Why? Becuase, IIRC, this was produced in extremely large amounts when compared to the allies (It was easier. It's only a tube and a rocket.)

Also, say this with me- Satchels. Do. Not. Kill. Tanks. The blast is unfocused, and when just set on the frontal/rear armor..it will scratch the paint at best. This goes for any tank. However, if you place it beneth a tread/underbelly, it ought to atleast imobilize it.

[Safe-Keeper]

I'd love to fear tanks, actually, especially the huge ones such as the Tiger.

[Jetro]

Great, so the german infantry will have superior armor and all the anti-armor infantry they can eat while the allies take 5 minute hikes from base to pick up a piat.

[Gauntlet]

I like it the way it is on Prohovkarovka at the moment. No spawnable AT class except the RDG-33/Gebalte Ladung and Satchels. Tanks are much more feared there because of the lack of 'long-range' AT weapons such as the Zooka/Faust (altough it has a couple of Bazooka pick up kits).

[Seth_Soldier]

this have already been discussed ( i don't remembe where is the post sorry)

atm the system is perfect, it is normal that tank fear anti-tank class when he drive into a city or bushes.
On vast plain, it is the contrary, the tank is the king.

The only pb which could be discussed is about the respawn very from a flag which give the team time to destroyed the tank which capture the flag.
If you ask to change the system , someone will ask to change the tank system and make it 2 place to avoid uber-armor soldier ...
Remember ! it is the contrary ! the tank was a tomb and many people have got pity for tankers !

[Hawk_345]

The tanks are already the most powerfull things on the ground and your saying to make them even more unfair, seriously, who will play the allied side if no AT agaisnt Tigers, if this is put in no side should get AT class and tanks must not be able to last foreever, maybe they can run out of gas or something.

[Komrad_B]

The tanks are already the most powerfull things on the ground and your saying to make them even more unfair, seriously, who will play the allied side if no AT agaisnt Tigers, if this is put in no side should get AT class and tanks must not be able to last foreever, maybe they can run out of gas or something.

Hes not asking to remove AT kit althogether, he's asking not to make them classes you can spawn with. Also, you don't seem to understand that tanks just CANNOT, Tiger or not, enter a city right now without getting walked upon by PTRS/RPG hopper and panzerfaust riflemens, who usually represent 90% of the axis team. Tanks that survive long are those smart enough to stay out of AT range, meaning having more or less AT don't affect them at all (in fact, they might get more courageous and get killed more often). Don't worry, with only a handful of AT kits laying around, no tank would last forever if they get involved in too much street fighting. You also seem to rely on the false assumption that only AT rockets/rifles/grenades can kill tanks, while they should usually be last ditch defense. Learn to rely on AT guns, tank hunters and planes, these are the real anti tank weapons agaisnt really dangerous tanks.

1 out of 32 US weapons produced during the war were bazookas, thats 1 bazooka per map. Granted, FH maps are scaled, but these weapons were more rare than some pickup kits only weapons we have right now. The FH infantry's tank killing weapons are way too available, lets say a tank kills 10 person defending a flag, then move for the cap, the 10 of them will respawn with either 5 megaton nuclear satchels or bazookas/shreck. Is this realistic? No. Even with more limited AT weaponry, driving a tank in a town would still be very risky business, don't worry about this.

[Mandingo 18'']

Originally Posted by Komrad_B

1 out of 32 US weapons produced during the war were bazookas, thats 1 bazooka per map.

Yes, and generally in WW2 there were 500 infantry units per one tank. This means that to have a realistic Bazooka-to-tank-ratio there should be 15 Bazookas per each tank. In fact there are unrealistically few anti-tank weapons in proportion to the amount of tanks currently in FH. So I think it is quite reasonable to have Bazookas as a spawnable kit, or would you like to have one tank per every ten maps to represent a realistic amount of tanks in relation to infantry?

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Guys, remember that if the tank is "feared", the guy in the tank will be racking up the kills easily (espcially by preying on the new players -- which FH2 will have a ton of). Yes, it's true every soldier didn't have a Bazooka in World War 2 ... but it's also true that every soldier didn't have distinct knowledge of the terrain. When we play the same map 50 times, we remember every bump, crater, hill, and building -- also we remember where people spawn. This means a tank could hang outside of a spawn at close-medium range and rip the infantry to pieces unopposed.

Imagine what would happen if you get 1 tank to lay down constant fire on the AT pickups and the rest lay down fire on everything else. It would be unplayable for infantry.

I like they way they worked in the Panzerfausts. 30m effective range means you need to get pretty close to a tank to hurt it. Otherwise, duck down or get around the tank and sneak up.

Anyway, I think that FH has succeeded in replicating the style of warfare used in the era. Sometimes this means you need to give up some realistic aspects. In this case, you give up the idea of AT soldiers being few and far between to get the realistic idea that tanks do not simply drive into terrain w/o infantry support -- they either keep their distance or move in slowly.

Oh, also an important point is that infantry cannot jump on a tank and dump grenades inside of the viewports or open a hatch and unload an SMG into the crew.

[Fuzzy Bunny]

I think if you make tanks buffer than they are now, out of fairness they _should_ be two-person vehicles (as the 1B is now.) Gunner and driver.

I like the idea of AT rockets being pickup rather than spawnable kits (or maybe I'm just coming around to class limits), but they _need_ to hurt tanks.

AT weaponry (AT guns, etc.) should be deployable, towable, whatever, infantry AT weapons shouldn't have the stupid invisible cone of fire (where you fire, there it goes), but they also shouldn't be insta-whip-outtable (i.e. drawing/firing delays.)

And tanks _should not_ be able to enter a city without getting worked. We've gone over this before; in FH, due to engine limitations, there are limited things you can do to tanks; in real life, you'd use AT ditches, molotov cocktails, explosives collapsing walls and crap on it, etc. etc. etc.

Tanks without infantry should be sitting ducks in urban environments.

As for satchels not doing damage, I assume you saw that German "how-we-kill-Russian-tanks" video? Unless you dump the explosives right at the turret or on the front glacis, it'll cause a pretty nifty concussion inside, even if the majority of the explosion is deflected. We're talking about several pounds of TNT here, not some 4th of July firecracker.