The Question of Challenge

[Solo4114]

Of course, and I'm not asking for maps that design for noobtards. there's a big difference between a noobtard and an otherwise disorganized pub player, though.

[Lobo]

Some guys organizing the work with chat can make wonders if the rest of team accept guidance. Hopefully FH2 with all the commander and squadleader jazz will force natural born teamplay, I really hope, we will be swimming in the warm Shangri La fonts.

It's funny the most annoying whiners are always the classic John Battlefield Rambo who complains because he can't take full Ramelle with his blazing MP40 all by himself. Few maps suck, usually players do, but the whiners are usually the most incompetent of village, the good players are busy thinking how to solve a problem, FH is not Mohaa deathmatch, it's about a team effort.

[Solo4114]

Yeah, trouble is the BF1942 engine was never really designed to encourage teamplay as much as it was designed to SUGGEST it. Like, "Do it if you want, but go ahead and blaze away like a Rambo Noobie if you want."

I too hope that BF2's engine and teamwork capabilities, from squads, to point structure, to the commander, to VOIP will really help avoid a lot of the problems we see in FH1 maps, simply because people will work together more.

I'm just suggesting that, for future map design, to keep certain things in mind. Pub players will be less organized in general, although FH2 players will hopefully be a bit better.

I just don't think you can assume teamwork will happen inherently, though, when designing maps. I think you have to assume people will move GENERALLY for the goals of the team, but in a lot of cases will still be doing so all by themselves. Even if they're running near another player, they'll be mostly focused on themselves rather than on coordinating with other players.

That's ok and all, but it means that maps have to keep this in mind so that the disadvantage/advantage disparity isn't too wide.

[Afterburner]

Here is why Battlefield and it's mods usually don't have pubbers doing teamwork.

They are huge. The maps I mean. Even the smallest BF maps are HUGE in comparison with games like Call of Duty or Counter-Strike. And because they are so huge people spread out more. Because they spread out more people tend to work alone. There are exceptions to this and there are alot of people who will try to work together. The problem is they spread out over the servers and enough of them don't hit one server to get good teams going.

I play CoD:UO mostly now(played FH for a long time but for some reason B1942 and its mods started taking literally ten or more minutes to load maps.)
and the maps are small enough that even though alot of people run-and-gun they still manage to work together, map size forces them to. They need to stick together for purely size reasons but because they need to stay relatively close together they usually start working together.

I'm not saying the FH should start switching to smaller maps. Big maps and lots of vehicles are the reason I played and will be playing the FH series. I just hope mappers keep this in mind. Don't design maps that any little nooblet can run and gun and lonewolf on. But take into account that you are OFTEN going to have atleast half of each team either lonewolfing, smacktarding, or comitting various other team destroying actions. Design maps so that you don't need perfectly coordinated teams to win but also design them so that a team that has NO coordination can't win.