shrapnel
 

I am hoping for FH2 that we get true shrapnel effects. Right now all explosives/shells are just concussion devices which act very different from shrapnel weapons which were much more common. Shrapnel extends the lethal radius of an explosive device but it also changes how the device acts.

The code for shrapnel could be made much the same as for the shotgun in BF2 just with a different "shot" pattern. The blast should throw shrapnel in 360 degrees but out and up in a flat "V" pattern. This also makes "hitting the deck" a smart thing to do during an artillery barrage.

It also makes small shells 20mm-40mm actually have a difference from bullets.

Shrapnel was a huge % of battlefield casualties in WWII.

Re: shrapnel
 

I totally agree. Finally getting some splash damage!

Re: shrapnel
 

I would love to see that. Shooting an AT rocket and it hits the wall or ground near a guy and it doesn't phase him sucks. Same with grenades, artillery, etc.

Re: shrapnel
 

Grenades/Arty will phase him. The reason the rockets don't do damage is in your very post: They're AT rockets. For the sake of fun and balance, they tried not to make the rockets too effective against infantry. There is still lethal blast radius, and I've actually got 3 kills with one rocket (in Karkand, they were really close together).

Re: shrapnel
 

Modelling individual shrapnel pieces can become very intensive if individually modeled (think 1000 bullets all let loose at once). Even if it was a probability distrobution of getting hit (which would vary with range/angle) that would be something.

Re: shrapnel
 

i like this idea. i think it could improve FH's atmosphere.

Re: shrapnel
 

i would love to see this :D
i just wonder what kind of preformance hit, it would cause.

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Why would it cause a performance hit? It's code. Unless they actually make it visible.

Re: shrapnel
 

Yeah, we don't need to see every piece of shrapnel. I guess it would be more of a deadly blast radius.

Yeah, I guess that they did that in BF2. I haven't played it in awhile, so I was talking more about FH and FH2. BF2 has/had major potential, but its going to take devs/modders like the fine folks here at FH to get it right.

Re: shrapnel
 

Myrddraal, your shrapnel idea is essentially the same as my crusade for HE tank alt-fire capability. Just think, guns with anti-personnel capacity! Better watch out, people might think you want this mod to be realistic or something. :)

Re: shrapnel
 

Keep in mind, the computer would have to render every last bit of shrapnel. Isn't FH laggy enough as it is?

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FH2 will be lag-free.

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A rather bold prediction, don't you think? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Re: shrapnel
 

How come ya'll always come up with a lag issue whether it involves props.

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You need a good pc, thats all :)

Re: shrapnel
 

At wat range would it be dangerous to stand near an explosion?
50m? or 500 like in rl?

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That would depend on the size of the charge,a handgrenade is somewhat less lethal than a round from the Yamato.:)

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Yes, lets alienate the majority!

Hopefully BF2 can run a mod like FH better, because god knows BF1942 has now, looking back at it, a rather inefficient engine. I think a lot of it has to do with particle effects.

I run vanilla BF2 decently, but I hope that FH2 will have *relatively* the same requirements as BF2. Even still, in FH1, if too many players join or I end up in a certain map, things don't go to well, and rather than being consistently choppy, it's clunky, with certain smooth parts and certain parts where it locks up for a second or so. This would *almost* be playable, except for that fact that if BF1942 isn't running very well, you can't switch weapons or go prone!

I don't think it's a matter of "Needing a good pc", but hopefully the devs agree with me when I say it's a matter of a happy balance between a good pc and something accessible.

Re: shrapnel
 

All you have to do is use the same code that is already in BF2.... the shotgun. It wouldn't be any more laggy then a few guys with shotguns dueling it out. Just increasing blast radius doesn't work correctly, with shrapnel/shell fragments the guy next to you can be killed and you can be just fine. The explosion effect (concussion) has a much smaller leathal area then the shrapnel and shell fragments. The pieces don't have to be modeled just like the devs don't model the bullets fired from rifles or MG's. If I am not mistaken there were two types of rounds for a bazooka, one was AT (very small concentrated blast with little to no area effect) and one fragmentation round used to clear bunkers (large blast with shrapnel). I don't know if the frag round should be included but it did exist and on certain maps (omaha) it might be a good addition.

Re: shrapnel
 

well even without the graphic effects included, it still has to calculate the trajectory for each piece of shrapnel. and each piece checking to see if it hit anything, along its route. same as for gunfire, like you said. but rarely is everyone all firing exactly at the same time. however to make a realistic shrapnel effect you need a lot of chunks flying. thats alot of gun fire all at the same time. realize, its like 10-15 shotguns as you described it, all firing exactly at the same time. i could see it being about the same as, aa effects hitting the ground in fh1 now, for performance hit.

Re: shrapnel
 

But BF2 has a much better physics engine for handling ballistics, I am not sure but I wouldn't think the hit would be that bad. If anything I would definately say it is worth trying and if it lags too badly then it can always be removed.

Re: shrapnel
 

Hah "It's code, what performance hit?" Code needs to be executed and the results transfered via the internet to the client.

1 mortar round landing could easily triple the number of bullet trajectories that would be normally calculated that second.

WWIIOnline switched a few months ago from probability based shrapnell to 'experimental' shrapnel. It was a big deal. If you imaginethat a shotgun in BF fills a 10 degree x 10 degree square with 7 pellets then... you need about 4000 pellets for the same density in a half-dome. I should actually do the math again better, but you can see what's going on.

And those 4000 bits are traveling in parabolic arcs, losing kinetic energy due to air friction.. well yeah. Plug that baby in your Ti-82.

If that's too calculation heavy for the server, you can also just write a function that's if you're x meters away and y meters above the blast surface and have line of sight, then you have a 0.11 probability of being hit with shrapnel. It's not perfect, but it's a heck of a lot easier to do.

Re: shrapnel
 

Yes but real shells in the 18 pndr size range only produced about 350 pieces of shrapnel and shell fragments. There will be many less in the smaller shells. Also having them travel in parabolic arcs is uneeded because of the V up blast pattern by the time the arc matters they have lost most of thier killing power anyway (FH hit points don't take bruises into account).

Re: shrapnel
 

All is solved if we merely expand kill radius consistent with RL HE, and whether by shrapnel or blast doesn't matter. Doesn't involve tracking individual pieces of shell or shrapnel. But if you're above ground and 15 meters from a 75 mm HE, you're dead. Again, HE alt-fire capability for tanks is mandatory for this to matter.

Re: shrapnel
 

This is not just for tanks it is for any cannon. In FH right now there is no difference between a .50 cal gun and a 20mm cannon or a 30mm cannon except that the cannons do slightly better against armored targets. IRL there is a huge difference between a shell and a bullet. I do agree that tanks should have AP/HE switchable but first that is not for this topic and second I am positive the dev’s are already including it in FH2.

It is also for grenades as concussion and fragmentation grenades act very differently.

Re: shrapnel
 

I like the idea of \/ shaped explosions, makes ducking for cover that much more important

Re: shrapnel
 

they shoulnt make it visible, but it would definitly be great to include.

Re: shrapnel
 

i definately say experiment with the idea :D

Re: shrapnel
 

Sounds like a good idea. One worries if it's codable, but I sure hope so.