20mm shell needs some power.

[Sputty]

Originally Posted by Ohioan

Whats easier to kill? Infantry or tanks? Oh yeah, infantry. More kills for me!

I think a VERY small amount of splash damage would be appropriate. DC_Realism gave a very very small amount of splash damage to heavy MGs like the PKM and M240/60. What it does is simulates cover fire. Dive behind sandbags, and he shoots above you, you get very slightly hurt. It actually adds a lot of atmosphere and tension to the fights. Note, its such a small amount of splash that it rarely kills anyone.

20mms should have this. 23mm could be AP and this wouldn't be a problem. 30mm should have a bit more.

Exactly my sentiments. BTW, the 20mm shells in Saving Private Ryan only did damage to infantry it hit, and seemed to be AP. It was able to hit the tank beside infantry and the guy was unaffected, although he got minced when he was hit.

[MkH^]

I think 23mm+ weapons should get a slight splash damage. Maybe so, that a very close hit would do ~33% damage to infantry, but almost no damage as the range increases.

[Gerbera345]

The idea that a 20mm shell should be able to kill within more than a few inches or so is insane, like Hartmann said, a 20mm round has a charge of 2 grams, basically take a large firecracker and throw it at something, see if it blows the living crap out of something.

The shell itself only weighs about a 1/3 of a pound, possibly if one 20mm shell flew into an occupied outhouse and exploded it could kill everything in the room, but it would take more than one or two to kill a guy if your trying to kill him with splash, sure you might cut him up with shrapnel (about as thick as a piece of a coke can) but you'd be better off to hit him directly, in reality the 20mm can do wonders against troops due to their high rate of fire, most of them are around 200-300rds per minute.

[Wonder[FIN]]

Originally Posted by Von Mudra

BTW, Hartmann, there are many instances of BOMBERS unloading full bomb loads to kill solitary infantry during the Winter War.

Yeah, and the swedish sold us shells that were a millimeter too large.
You've been watching too much of the movie! :P

[Von Mudra]

Originally Posted by Gerbera345

The idea that a 20mm shell should be able to kill within more than a few inches or so is insane, like Hartmann said, a 20mm round has a charge of 2 grams, basically take a large firecracker and throw it at something, see if it blows the living crap out of something.

The shell itself only weighs about a 1/3 of a pound, possibly if one 20mm shell flew into an occupied outhouse and exploded it could kill everything in the room, but it would take more than one or two to kill a guy if your trying to kill him with splash, sure you might cut him up with shrapnel (about as thick as a piece of a coke can) but you'd be better off to hit him directly, in reality the 20mm can do wonders against troops due to their high rate of fire, most of them are around 200-300rds per minute.

Look, I have seen the 20mm in actual use. When this thing blows up, it spews little bits of sharpnel everywhere, with enough force to kill. I even personally own 3 20mm rounds, they are big, they will kill you if they hit nearby. This is why I am saying it should like a tiny grenade, not as large of a radius for insta-kill, but large enough to clear a room after 2-3 shots. And why can it do wonders due to it's "high" rate of fire? 200-300 sheels per mintue is nothing. Most mgs are 900rpm, if not more. What gives it power is that you don't have to hit to kill.

[Myrddraal]

20mm HE rounds may only have 2 grams of explosives but they are High Explosives (HE) so comparing them to a firecracker is way, way off. An M203 is only 40mm and it has a 5 meter casualty radius. So a 1 to 2 meter injury radius would not be over exaggerating the blast of a 20mm shell. 30mm should be 2 to 3 meters. No insta-kills without a direct hit but damage for sure (35% damage sounds reasonable to me).

[Karst]

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

20mm HE rounds may only have 2 grams of explosives but they are High Explosives (HE) so comparing them to a firecracker is way, way off. An M203 is only 40mm and it has a 5 meter casualty radius. So a 1 to 2 meter injury radius would not be over exaggerating the blast of a 20mm shell. 30mm should be 2 to 3 meters. No insta-kills without a direct hit but damage for sure (35% damage sounds reasonable to me).

that seems about right....then you can really notice a difference between a 20-30 mm cannon and a .50 cal.... it doesn't have to kill instantly, but at least a third of damage is realistic and better. I mean, they're not called HE rounds without a reason ^^

[Von Mudra]

Maybe 1 meter kill, 2-3 meter wound. This will make the 20mm finally a good anti infy gun!

[MkH^]

HORRIBLE IDEA. That would turn all maps into total plane rape. For example, imagine the maps "Supercharge" and "Desert Rose". Very little cover for infantry and it's very easy to hit through the windows of the houses. Hitting a jeep would kill everyone inside from one hit. You would only have to aim at the general direction of the infantry.

I'd give the rounds a slight splash damage from the area of ~15-33% when hitting extremely close, so that they wouldn't survive from two guns hitting around them simultaneously or survive from one round hitting them, which is extremely frustrating with flak guns. You hit them right on, which should be a kill in real life no matter what, but they live to shoot you down. With splash damage the second round hitting next to them would finish them off.

[Von Mudra]

What plane rape? I don't see any one strafing now, this won't effect it one bit.