20mm shell needs some power.

[MkH^]

I can somewhat understand Hartmanns logic, although I really have hard time to.

The infantry does have more cover in real life and are not so easily distinguished from the ground because of undergrowth and such. A pilot would not attack a single infantryman either in real life, BUT:

You have to put it in the FH scale. A single infantryman did not capture an enemy position in real life, while in FH it's easy and a one infantryman can decide the outcome of the game. So, I'd give the cannons splash damage. Not too lethal, but maybe like 1/3 of health from close range.

[Skipster]

Originally Posted by D-Fens

Panzer II didn't fire ap rounds?

It had both.

[Karst]

Originally Posted by MkH^

You have to put it in the FH scale. A single infantryman did not capture an enemy position in real life, while in FH it's easy and a one infantryman can decide the outcome of the game. So, I'd give the cannons splash damage. Not too lethal, but maybe like 1/3 of health from close range.

Correct. In real life there were no single infantrymen running around by themselves capturing "flags"
it doesn't have to be completely realistic deadly area effect damage, but if it doesn't have any, it's basically a machine gun that can kill tanks.....the .50 cal kills infantry with one shot too......50 cal is about 12.7 mm

[MkH^]

Offtopic, but the funny thing is, that .50 cal doesn't even necessarily kill people with one shot :|

I've seen a picture of person shot with 12.7mm machinegun. Limbs ripped off, holes of diameter of five centimeters through him..

I've also multiple times shot a person with the 30mm in Go-229 and see him survive.

[Karst]

Originally Posted by MkH^

Offtopic, but the funny thing is, that .50 cal doesn't even necessarily kill people with one shot :|

I've seen a picture of person shot with 12.7mm machinegun. Limbs ripped off, holes of diameter of five centimeters through him..

I've also multiple times shot a person with the 30mm in Go-229 and see him survive.

well it would be difficult to fight in that condition anyway ^^

[MkH^]

I meant in FH

[Von Mudra]

BTW, Hartmann, there are many instances of BOMBERS unloading full bomb loads to kill solitary infantry during the Winter War.

Plus the point is not just the Typhoon and Me109 and such 20mms, I am saying a tank like the Pz2 becomes a Pz1 that can kill tanks. THe whole big thing about the Pz2 is that is can fire 1-2 shots of 20mm into a room, and kill everyone in it. This is how I want it to be. The thing was an infy killer.

[Ohioan]

Panzer II and AA guns should get splash damage, but I think he's right about the planes.

Anyone play DC Beta 2? The A-10? Youd point somewhere remotely close to the enemy base, tap the trigger, and everything would die. Too much splash. Now think about the ROF of planes like the FW190 and ME262. Same thing. Just point at enemy spawn point from out of view disatance and fire away, you'd kill people way too easy.

On the other hand.. you kinda have to have it for realism.

So I purpose a solution.

Give P2 and AA guns splash normally.
Planes, every 10 20mm rounds could have a small amount of splash damage. Not nearly as much as a grenade.

[Frederf]

Well, 20mm shells on fighters were treasured commodities, you only have 5 seconds firing them or some such, 100-200 rounds max.

[Ohioan]

Treasured commodities? I think not. They were among the most common fighter armorments. And in the case of the FW190, 750 rounds is a lot of firepower even if it only equates to about 8 seconds of fire. You used the smaller MGs like 50 cals, 13mm and 15mm to shoot at targets you thought you might not hit, and you used 20mm when you knew you'd hit.

The Hurricaine Ds of Brittain had 2 .303 MGs armed with HE rounds (7.7mm.. not much) and 2 40mm guns for tankbusting. The thing was, the .303 guns had the same muzzle velocity and trajectory as the 40mm guns. The Hurricaine pilots would use the HE rounds (which were notably useless against any sort of thing they wanted to actually damage) for spotting. They could see the explosion when they hit, so they'd fire away and line up the shot with the .303s and then fire just a few 40mm rounds after getting on target. They had over a 50% hit rate (which is phenominal, from the air). The Hurricane Ds were later phased out in favor of Typhoons with rockets for anti-tank usage, which had a 2% hit rate, MUCH lower. The payload was much greater then the 40mms though, and the psychological effect was also considered worth the low hit percentage. Typhoons scared the CRAP out of Axis tanks.