20mm shell needs some power. - Page 2

***Ohioan*** · February 1st, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Hartmann

Proximity fuse? On a 20mm? What the hell do you smoke?
A 20mm round has some g of explosives, even today adding in a proximity sensor there would be a delicate task, since the projectil is so tiny. And if you got your sensor and fuse in there, you don't need it anymore, since those shells have little more explosive power then china crackers. Of course they have some shrapnel, but with an explosive weight measured in single g, it won't really knock the house down (Handgrenades are around 100g)

They dont have any splash damage in FH. Same with 30mm aircraft guns. Please remedy this.

It should be a small amount.

For all who care:

A U.S. penny is 19mm in diameter. Picture something only barely larger, and that's how thick a 20mm shell is.
Not a lot of room for fancy fuses. The major loadings for 20mm were (1940) ball, AP, and HE. Ball ammunition was just a 20mm slug. It was used in Brittish Naval AA mounts in the very early days of WW2, because it was effective and cheap.

HE is High Explosive, which was the most common AA round. The 20mm round was considered the smallest size that was applicable to add a warhead to at the time. Brittish had some experiments with 7.7mm Incendiary rounds in aircraft cannons (7.7mm is .303) but it was found that because the round was so small, it didn't make a difference in destructive power over a normal 7.7 solid core round.

AP is armor piercing, which means that a soft metal "jacket" usually surrounds an ultra-hard (tungsten, uranium, etc) core. The cores were the penetrating "submunitions" of AP rounds. Most 20mm AP guns had a penetrating core of 12.5-12.7mm, which is about the size of a .50 cal round. They weren't spectacularly effective, except in dealing with IL-2s.

As far as FH goes, 20mm and 30mm NEED splash damage. They are almost all HE rounds and should be explosive, as HE rounds were. There are a few decent exceptions, one of which was the IL-2's 23mm rounds, which were largely AP.

20mm ship AA guns
20mm Panzer II gun
20mm nose cannon on P-38
20mm HS408 cannons on Hurricaines and Spitfires (among the best in the war)
20mm Flak38/Flak30 (less tracers, not every 20mm round was a tracer)
20mm Vierling (4xFlak38)
20mm guns on the LCAC thing with tanks
20mm on BF109s/FW190s
20mm Betty turret gunner (top)
20mm on TKS tankette
23mm on IL-2 guns (should NOT have HE rounds, or one ever x rounds)
25mm Japanese AA gun mounts (note: They were usually in 3s, not sets of 2s)
30mm BF109-g nose gun

The 37mm Ostwind gun and 40mm Bofors rounds on the M-19 and stationary installations are absolutely devestating to infantry. I'm kinda curious as to why 30mm and 20mm don't have any splash, they were both also notable in their anti-infantry killing ability.

Most AA guns spend the bulk of their military service firing at infantry and giving support to allied troops against GROUND targets.

In conclusion, FH team, please give them splash damage. Not much and not insta-kill, but enough that shooting 20mm into a room makes people inside the room hurt.

Von Mudra · February 1st, 2005

Ok, ok, ok, I am sry, I made a mistake

I don't mean proximty fuses, I meant timed. Like, timed to expolde at a certain distance. The 40mm bofers used to do that ingame, for some reason it doesn't anymore.

Yes, the 20mm should have HE capabilty. One shell, near an infy, should be a kill. I have seen 20mm in action. One 20mm in a room will kill everyone in it. I even HAVE 3 20mm rounds. I can post a pic if you want, these things are big enough to put out a lot of sharpnel.

A 30mm would be even bigger. So, I am tired of starfing infy with my Me109 or Me262, and havig to hit point blank with the 20mms. I am tired of hopping into the Pz2 on Fall Weiss, only to have something that is basically a Pz1 with one mg that can take down tanks.

I WANT MY 20MM TO SPRAY BLOOD ON THE WALLS!!!!

***Ohioan*** · February 1st, 2005

Maybe thats a bit too strong. 20mm really isn't that large, but 30mm has almost 4x the explosive material.

Von Mudra · February 1st, 2005

Well, no, I have seen the 20mm in firing. When it hits in a room, is does indeed put out alot of shrapnel, enough to mortally wound, if not kill, everyone in the room. The things ar big too, I got 3 of them, as I said. Hell though, a 30mm could take down a fighter plane, one hit. Those were damn good, but still, lets stay on topic, the 20mm and 30mm both need some punch for a change.