German flamethrower tank on Arnhem

[Mr Polska]

During the Battle of Arnhem the Pz.Abt.224 used several Flammpanzer B2 against the allied forces.

I think that the Flammpanzer B2 would be a nice addition for the germans on the Arnhen map. The Germans could fight effective against the hinden britsh anti-tank soldier.

The Flammpanzer B2 is a coverted version of the french Char B1 tank.
The Char B1 are already ingame, we need "only" a new skin and a few modifications on the char b1 model.

Info

The first units equiped with B2 flame tanks were the 7th companies of Pz.Rgt.201 and 202, which were regrouped in 1941 in Pz.Abt.102 and engaged on the eastern front. Char B2(f) and B2(f) flame tanks were used during Barbarossa to reduce and destroy Russian fortifications in the summer of 1941. Pz.Abt.213 was later equiped with B2 tanks and stationned in French islands in the Channel. Panzer-Abteilung 206 was formed in November 1941 at Satory (near Paris), this battalion was used as a reserve unit for the 7.Armee. Wedged in Cherbourg, this unit was destroyed there. Its composition in beginning 1944 included 2 companies of 10 Hotchkiss H-39 and 4 Somua S-35 (in each company) and one "Stab Kompanie" of 3 Renault B2, 3 Renault B2 flamethrower, 2 Somua S-35 and 2 Renault R-35. Many such small units were formed with French booty/converted tanks like the 100. Panzer Abteilung commited to 91. ID in Normandy in 1944 (1 Somua S-35, 8 Hotchkiss H-39, 14 Renault R-35, 1 Flammenwerferpanzer Renault B2 (f), 1 PzIII and 5 FT17c) and the 21. Pz.D. included many French tanks. Pz.Abt.223 was formed (attached to 22.PzD) with Char B2 flame tanks and was engaged in fightings near Sevastopol in 1942. This unit was then expanded to include 2 panzer companies and command elements with a second company composed of 5 Pzkpfw.B2 and 12 Pzkpfw.B2 (Fl). Different other units were also equiped with B2(f) tanks : Pz.Abt.224 in the Netherlands (engaged in Arnhem and Oosterbeek in 1944) , two companies of the Pz.Rgt.100 in France and one company of 17 Pzkpfw.B2 from SS Pz.Abt.7 (SS Prinz Eugen division) in the Balkans. In February 1945, 40 B2(f) tanks were still in service in the German army. Late war B2(f) had sometimes a kind of zimmerit/concrete on their armor, at least on the turret.

Panzerkampfwagen B2(f) (Flamm)

The captured frech tank Char B1bis was used by the Germans calling it Char B2(f). Hitler wanted 24 of these tanks to be converted to Flammpanzer until the latest of 20th June 1941 to have them ready for Operation 'Barbarossa'.

For the conversion the 75mm cannon was replaced by a flame spray tube. That was, like the original 75mm cannon, only vertically movable.
A second version was built where in place of the 75mm cannon a small platform was installed, on which traversable turret (like on Flammpanzer II) was mounted. The flamethrower-operator got a vision slit, which was cut in the front plate. Both versions had the flame fuel tank internally.
All 24 Flammpanzer were issued to Panzerabteilung (F) 102, which supported successfully the attacks on the russian border fortress 'Wieki Dzial'. On 27th July 1941 the Panzerabteilung (F) 102 was disbanded.
The third version of the flame-tanks received a new flamethrower which achieved ranges of 40-45 meter, by propelling the flamefuel by a pump which was driven by a J10-engine. The spray-tube was this time placed in a ball-mount and the flamethrower operator received the drivers visor 50 (Fahrersehklappe 50). The new series of Flammpanzer could be recognized by the flamefuel-tank on the rear, which was 30mm armoured. All 24 tanks of first and second series were converted to third series and so 60 vehicles were produced.
In the turret remained the 47mm KwK35(f) L/34 and a 7.5mm MG(f).
There were 50 rounds carried for the 47mm cannon. This tank weighted 32 tons and the armour protection consisted of 55mm plates at the turret front and 45mm at turret sides and rear. The Chassis had 60mm in front and at the sides and 45mm at the rear. The length of this Flammpanzer was 6.52m, the width 2.52m and the height 2.88m. The groundpressure was 0.85kg/cm2, and it had a fording depth of 72cm. The 16.94 litre Renault engine gave 300 hp at 1900rpm, so a maximum speed of 28km/h was achievable.
All in all 60 Panzer B2(Flamm) got the new flamethrower system and were issued to following units: 12 to Panzerkompanie 223 at Eastern Front, 24 to Panzer-Brigade 100 in the west, 10 to Panzer Abteilung 213 in the west and an unknown number to the 7.SS Freiwilligen Gebirgs Divison "Prinz Eugen" in Jugoslavia.

Photos of a B2(f) in Oosterbeek near Arnhem







source 1

source 2

source 3
source 4

sorry for my bad english

[Arisaka]

there is this guy in this forum who is absolutely obsessed with arnhem. he knows the entire list over vehicles in arnhem by heart. i bet he'll say something like "osterbeek is not arnhem!" :lol:

there were 14 somua flamethrower tanks, attached to the 244th Panzer Kompanie which reached Arnhem on monday or tuesday. (admiral, you know the exact date and time, correct me here )

[D-Fens]

Hope Dönitz team makes this one, and also adds the möbelwagens and such..

[[nl]Invincible]

i must say ..........that is one of the most ugely tanks i ever seen :P

[Admiral Donutz]

Originally Posted by Arisaka

there is this guy in this forum who is absolutely obsessed with arnhem. he knows the entire list over vehicles in arnhem by heart. i bet he'll say something like "osterbeek is not arnhem!" :lol:

there were 14 somua flamethrower tanks, attached to the 244th Panzer Kompanie which reached Arnhem on monday or tuesday. (admiral, you know the exact date and time, correct me here )

Hehe, Its Oosterbeek Arisaka. And yes the Flammpanzer B2 did not see action in Arnhem but 5-7 km away from the bridge in Oosterbeek only. It was part of Panzer-Kompanie 244 but i'm not sure when they arrived.

I myself and a team of other are working on a totally realistic Arnhem map, which will feature the Bridge perimeter (only!), so no flammpanzers there. For more info see www.battleofarnhem.tk (though the real stuff is located in the private forums).

Though it would fit in the OMG map or (if it is ever made) a map of Wolfheze landingareas + Oosterbeek.

Yes i'm a realism freak, no flammpanzer near the Rijnbrug (Arnhem bridge), in 5km's so no flammpanzer on my map either . The Arnhem 1944 map will feature:

SS-Pz.A.A.10 (SS-Hauptsturmführer Heinrich Brinkmann)
? x Sd.Kfz. 250-1
? x Sd.Kfz. 251
? x Pz.Spwg. P204

II./SS-Pz.Rgt.10
1-2 x StuG III G

Panzer-Ersatz-Regiment”Bielefeld” Pz.Kp. Mielke
2 x Panzer IV ([1 Ausf G and 1 Ausf H)
6 x Panzer III (Ausf Gs and Ms)

Schwere-Panzer-Kompanie Hummel
2 x Tiger Ie

Small changes might be made though. A detailed list of forces in and around Arnhem, Oosterbeek and Elst can be seen below:

German (armoured) Forces:

A very useful link on the used equipment is http://www.marketgarden.com/new/gear2frame.html
an intresting post, not sure too which extend it covers the german armour during OMG: http://www.network54.com/Forum/messa...eid=1100803908

The following forces fought around arnhem and the bridge area, although most of the described forces did not join battle before the 18th, 19th or even later.

9.SS-Panzer-Division “Hohenstaufen”

SS-Pz.A.A.9 (SS-Hauptsturmführer Viktor Gräbner)
10 x Sd.Kfz. 234/1 e 234/3
15 x Sd. Kfz. 251/9
12 x Sd. Kfz. 250 + 3 x Sd. Kfz. 251

SS-Pz.Flak-Abt.9
3 x Mobelwagen
1 x Sd.Kfz. 10/4

SS-Pz.Jg.Abt.9
2 x Jagdpanzer IV

SS-Pz.Pio.Abt.9
2 x Sd.Kfz. 251

10.SS-Panzer-Division “Frundsberg”

SS-Pz.A.A.10 (SS-Hauptsturmführer Heinrich Brinkmann)
? x Sd.Kfz. 250-1
? x Sd.Kfz. 251
? x Pz.Spwg. P204

SS-Pz.Flak-Abt.10
? x Sd.Kfz. 7/1

I./SS-Pz.Rgt.10
8 x Panther

II./SS-Pz.Rgt.10
16 x Panzer IV
4 x StuG III G

Reinforcements:

Panzer-Ersatz-Regiment”Bielefeld” Pz.Kp. Mielke
2 x Panzer IV ([1 Ausf G and 1 Ausf H)
6 x Panzer III (Ausf Gs and Ms)

Schwere-Panzer-Kompanie Hummel
14 x Tiger Ie

Schwere-Panzer-Abteilung 506
2./s.Pz.Kp.506
14 x Königstiger

3./s.Pz.Kp.506
14 x Königstiger

StuG-Brigade 280
10 x StuG III G (of which 3 Stu.H. 42G?)

Panzer-Kompanie 244
1 x Somua 35S
14 x Somua Flammpanzer
2 x Pz.Kpfw B2

Reinforcements detailed:

Kampfgruppe Knaust would support Brinkmann. That unit was deployed at Arnhem bridge from Monday 18 September onwards. It was gradually built up from elements of the following units:
- Panzer-Grenadier-Ausbildungs und Ersatz-Bataillon 64 of Major Hans-Peter Knaust (panzer grenadiers - arrived Monday 18
September from Bocholt, Germany);
- Panzer-Kompanie Mielke commanded by Leutnant Mielke (six Panzerkamfwagen III Ausf.G and two Panzerkamfwagen IV Ausf.H tanks- arrived
Monday 18 September from Bielefeld, Germany);
- elements of Ausbildungs und Ersatz-Bataillon 361 (panzer grenadiers - arrived Tuesday 19 September from Wuppental, Germany
- commander of that battalion was Hauptmann Hans Bruhn who himself actually fought in Oosterbeek with the rest of his
unit);
- schwere Panzer-Kompanie Hummel, led by Hauptman Hans Hummel (14 Tiger I tanks - arrived from Paderborn, Germany. Two of
these tanks were in action on Tuesday evening 19 September. More Arrived over the following days)

"I have the concord book German Armored Units at Arnhem (though not right in front of me). I'm not sure specifically about Brinkmann, but I know that vehicles used at the bridge and in and around arnhem included 250/1 of both the alte and neu versions, and various 251/1 and 251/9 of the D variety. I can't remember pics of any 251 C types in any unit in the book. Of course, there could have been some...I just haven't seen pics. Arnhem was one of those strange battles where all sorts of vehicles were used by the Germans including early marks of Pz III, PZ IV Gs, Flammpanzer CHAR B1s, but also later vehicles like Panther Gs and Mobelwagens. I can check when I get home to see what specifically I see in Brinkmann's group."

"The crossing was made by Grabner´s Aufklarungs units, wich had 250´s (alte and neu), also a number of trucks (most of them captured renaults and fords) were used to run across the bridge. Im almost 100 % sure that no 251 were used in that crossing as they didnt belonged to the aufklarung units, the concord book will provide you a lot of pics of 251´s but none of them appear to be ausf c´s. "

"The Panther tank in the surroundings of Arnhem; this is a great question. After six years of investigation a think there where non-in action in Arnhem or Oosterbeek. As far I can see the Kampfgruppe Hohenstaufen did not posses these tanks. If so; than these Panthers where all in repair. There is a small possibility that during the battle some were finished repairing and could therefore put into action.

source: http://www.network54.com/Forum/threa...geid=996682486
"

"I understand that you have build, or want to build a G version. In mine opinion it can’t be used in combination whit British paratroopers.

Marcel Zwarts"

"the Bridge area was the overall command in the hands of commander Brinkman from the SS-Pz.AA.10 Under his command stood Major Knaust. He had formed Kampfgruppe Knaust. He had the next armoured units under his command to defence the Elst area.
I./SS-Pz.Rgt.10 8x Panther Ausf. G early version
SS-Pz.AA.10 ?x Sd.Kfz.250/251 Panhard armoured car
SS-Pz.AA.9 ?x Sd.Kfz.250/251 Sd.Kfz.234/1+3
s.Pz.Kp. Hummel 13x Tiger I early, mid, late and mixed versions
Pz.Kp.Bielefd (Mielke) 6x Pz.III Ausf. G, J, L, M

Marcel Zwarts"

'Thanks to you all.

I think, when reading Martin’s data it will be safe to assume that the Panthers lost between Arnhem and Nijmegen belonged to the I./SS-Pz.Rgt.9 and not to any other unit. According Mr. Duckdale’s book the unit possessed five Panthers on 3 September 1944. Three were combat ready and two were in short term repair. These five + the new twenty Panthers makes twenty-five.
10 October 1944 nineteen Panthers were left in the unit, eighteen ready for action and one in short term repair. We are missing six panzers and that is exactly the number that was knocked out during the actions around the village Elst.

Because much armour that was used in Arnhem was unloaded at Bocholt it is save to assume that the shipment picked up at 20 September drove to Arnhem, at least a part of it. Photo’s made in Zutphen shows us Panther tanks driving to Arnhem. The shipment that arrived at Bergisch-Gladbach probably never reached Arnhem.
It looks that this little mystery is cleared by now.

The only thing that is not clear are the characteristic remarks of 9SS Panthers. Barry Crook made a very clear article about how to identification 9SS Panthers by there use of tactical numbers. As photo’s shows none of the Arnhem Panthers had these numbers. The Panther whit the crew compartment heater even had a national cross on its turret. There will be a big chance that the crew didn’t had time to paint some numbers or that the number system would be changed.

Hans according to my files 9.Pz.Div. arrived in the Arnhem area in the last days of September and early October. Elst and the western part of it were in allied hands by that time. Al photos made by Panther wrecks were taken in this area.

Marcel Zwarts

Source: http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=47207&messageid=1048082690"













Zimmerit Patterns


Vehicle tacticlemarkings:
http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/vehicle.htm

[Gauntlet]

ouch...no thats a powerful armored force!

[xWing_21]

...tell me about it

[Gauntlet]

anyway...speaking of Flamepanzer...wouldnt the Flammpanzer III be a realy good choice for a general(not just arnhem) german flamethrower tank when the PzKpw III is ready?

[Arisaka]

some numbers:

few Flammpanzer I (1941, DAK)
90 Flammpanzer II (1940/1941)
24 PzKpfw B1 Bis (f) Flammpanzer (1941)
100 Flammpanzer III (1943)
347 Sd.Kfz. 251/16 (hanomag with flamethrower) (1943+)
20 Flammpanzer Hetzer (dec. 1944)


i'm sure that as soon as the PzIII is in it will either get a flamethrower by the devs (quite likely), or blackdragon or somebody else will make it during the first hours after release.

but notice that huge number of sdkfz251's! flamethrowers were intended for for instance urban environments. i guess the hanomag was more attractive, and that the tanks were needed elsewhere.

[Krazy Kommando]

hanomag flamer would be sweet! although id rather see a pz3 flamer