Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

great mod and all but i was a bit disappointed that the soviets use german flak 18 guns and not their KS-12 guns on this one map i played (forgot the name) for the sake of historical accuracy use this gun it was widely used and was used as the main gun for the T-34/85.

more pics here http://www.thetankmaster.com/english/afv/85mm52k_01.asp

http://www.thetankmaster.com/IMAGES/AFV/52K/52k_01.jpg

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

Not a very good idea to put this baby in as replacement for the AA the ruskies have at the moment, reason being that you need very mobile and relatively rapid fire guns to stand a chance at hitting planes in FH. and not a rather powerfull but too slow german88 type weapon.

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

he didn't say he wanted them to replace the bofors, they would be like the german flak18 but for the russian. But the Bofors are almost historically accurate, as the 37mm M1939 soviet AA gun is almost identical to the bofors.


http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/l...FST9208203.jpg

I don't exacly know what the differences between a Bofors and this are, but if they are so similar the devs could change the bofors name (for the russians) to make sound like "37mm M1939" or sumthing like that.

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

My mistake, i thought he ment the german flak38, wich looks like the bofor. Im not sure about how much it will do as AA tho, if the rate of fire is somewhat like the 88. Its very hard to hit a plane with that.

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

The KS-18 would be good, the Germans could use them (8.5cm Flak M39(r)).

Here's a more detailed pic of a 37mm M1939, also used by the Germans as the 3.7cm Flak M39a(r):

http://www.gamingforums.com/attachme...id=24465&stc=1

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

Except the bofors is 40mm but I'm sure there are other differences

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

good weapons-would be cool

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

Yes i think it should replace the bofors.... but that appears to be a dual 37mm gun here's a single barreled one which they used:

http://www.thetankmaster.com/IMAGES/...37mm61K_01.jpg

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

here are more soviet anti-aircraft guns:

25mm 72K Model 1940


http://www.thetankmaster.com/IMAGES/...mm_1940_10.JPG

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

twin 25mm 94-KM Model 1944

http://www.thetankmaster.com/IMAGES/...KM/94km_01.jpg

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

I say no to the ks 85mm, the bofors is very good place holder for there regular aa gun, and the soviet just got a fixed gun in 66( or was it 65) that has ammo switching, (ap or he). Also there is no map where the soviet use the flak 18 as a placeholder, or even at all unless there overunning german positions.

Other countries are much more in need of fixed weapons then soviets, and even among soviet field pieces there beter options floating around, such as some of those other AA guns people are mentioning.

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

I vote yes, it's also used as anti tank :)

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

they just got a anti-tank gun, and its got he shells to boot. If it comes time for more soviet aa, there's better AA guns options then the KS.

The whole premise of the thread, that the KS was needed to replace a flak 18 "placeholder" for historical accuracy is wrong anyway, as the flak 18 isnt used this way.

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

I believe he meant replace the 88s on Prok at the forward Russian bases with the 85s so the guns still have dual purpose.

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

Meh different countries, different strokes- this function shifting can happen for other countries too. Part of the fun of fh is that different force strategies can come out, so rather then forcing 'tank' to 'tank' it can be tank destroyers and infantry tanks vs. mbts. In any case, what are the numbers of production of soviet AA and AT guns of different periods- and specificall how many ks 85s were setup this way and actually used dual role.

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

you are correct and to avoid any confusion this is the FLAK-18 http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_...rs/S3411AL.JPG

btw i also suggest that 37mm gun replace the bofors for the soviets and possibly even for the devs to include the 25mm gun both single/dual.

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

i would opt for a The 76.2 mm F-22 Model 1936
http://www.battlefield.ru/guns/field_4.html

germans converted many of them into AT guns they were used in all theathers some in North Africa.

note the muzzlebreak as the gun was re-tooled to take German shells. It should replace the the Pak 40 in North Africa.
http://www.atlantikwall.net/pictures...2mm_pak_36.jpg

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

How close is its performance to the german 88mm as the one on the tiger tank? Having a"pak88" could make short work of even the matilda.

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

Performance was slightly better than the PAK 40 and it would make short work of Matildas.

Re: Add KS-12 85mm Flak gun for soviets
 

Oh I though you were getting confused over the ones that can appear somtimes, after a flag is captured. As for those ones on the border, I think the assumption there is they were recently captured/overtanken ones, rather then a semi-incorrect place holder of the ks-12.

The M-1939 was almost exclusively used for AA, and only used for ground when circumstances required-namely when there was not enough 76's around. The gun had some drawbacks for AT works, namely a higher profile and some other details and the 76mm at gun was preffered.

One noted use of it in the ground role was when it ended up in this role around kursk, so its by no mean unreasonable there. (though it probably would not have been put so close to the front lines, being more valuble then other guns). However, it was far from being a standard dual use gun- its better to say it was AA gun with some notable use in the ground role.

Also, the gun in T-34/85, the D5-T was not this same gun, but only one developed from it, and despite being very similar there were some differences.


Given all that, its not a very good choice after the ZiS 3, as there are both better AT guns and more numerous AA guns to be done, which Is why I did not think it was a good choice.

Of the other two you mention, the 37mm would be largely a waste of time because as already mentioned, the bofors extremely close placeholder and is done pretty accurately- and for the same work there are more distintive choices. The 25 mm I will agree though would be nice, especially with selectable ammo.