Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Karelia is not so good map:lookaround: . If you gonna make it better add these to it:

Finnish famous SMG: SuomiKP (SuomiSMG) http://guns.connect.fi/gow/scannon.jpg
http://www.ankkurinvarsi.net/jaeger/kp_Suomi_1.jpg


Type: SMG (Sub-machine gun)
Caliber: 9.00mm Parabellum
Feed device: 50-round drum/20-round box magazine
Length: 863.6mm
Weight: 5 130g

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________
M/28-30 "Pystykorva"
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 7.62 mm x 53 R
Feed device: 5-rounds Picture: N/A?
Length: 1190 mm
Weight: 4300g

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Lahti Saloranta m/26 LMGhttp://www.winterwar.com/images/Weap...iSaloranta.jpg
Type: LMG (Light machine gun)
Caliber: 7.62 mm x 53 R
Feed device: 20-round box magazine
Length: 1 180mm
Weight: 9 320g

:nodding: SuomiSMG is the most important please add it to Karelia.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

ohhh come ther will be no new finnish stuff the guy who made the finnish stuff left the mod .. and it have already been suggested a couple of hundred times ..

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

And ANYONE cannot make new stuff?

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i think they have bettewr things to work on than a few new weapons for a forgotten country. I'd rather see more Polish/early war stuff than this

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Forgotten country? Finland kicked Russians a***s. Small Finland against giant Soviet Union and Finland did it!

Just a suggestion!

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or they could use ppsh and bar as placeholders

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Finland was taken over during the Winter War and was able to push the Soviets out of their country only after the Soviet war with Germany began. 99% of Soviet troops, vehicles, etc in Europe were fighting to hold back the Nazis. The Finnish campaign had a very low priority at the time.

Also, if I recall, the Germans called for the Finns to help out in the seige of Leningrad and the Finns couldn't even do that.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

no dont give thme the BAR give them the DP1928 instead much more relaistic and in 1939 during the winter war the finns was kinda high priority... and the finns could hold out for 3 or 4 months or something nad that is kinda good against a big contry like russia

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

You are so very wrong. 1. Finland was not conquered during the winter war. 2. The Finns REFUSED to participate in the siege of Leningrad.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Russia had heavy losses , they just ran to MG fire. Russia have only small zones
which was Finland. ´

~290 000 Russian soldiers were killed during Winter war and Continuation war.

~80 000 - 90 000 Finnish soldiers were killed during Winter war and Continuation war.

That´s redicilous! Finland really kicked their a***s.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

From I've read, the Finnish army was all but done, but the spring thaws came in March of 1940 and Stalin abandoned the war effort in Finland. By the end of the war, the Finns did give up 10% of their land to the USSR, giving the Soviets more of a buffer zone against future invasions. This helped them during the Continuation War, which lasted into 1944.

What can I say, the Soviets didn't win the war, but they gained some ground. Russia's never been known to be an offensive military country, anyways. :p

In winter warfare, the defender has a huge advantage.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Since we probably won't see finnish weapons in FH in a while, I'd suggest giving them..

Degtyarev DP1928. No sure if it's exactly the same weapon as DP1927, which was used more widely by finns than Lahti-Saloranta LMG.

Mosin-Nagant M/1891. Preferably with altered finnish vertical front sights, instead of the round one, but the current model will do.

MP40. Think finns got few of these as german aid.

Satchel Charges most definitely! I've heard these are going to be included in .62.

Panzerfaust. Used widely during continuation war.

Of course I'd love to see completely new finnish equipment, but these would make nearly perfect replacements.

by the way -> http://www.gamingforums.com/showthread.php?t=119628

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Soviets did not conquer Karelia by the way. A contract was made to hand Karelia off to soviets after the war, which is the reason some people are still pissed off about it, since it wasn't even actually taken by force.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Well, the Suomi SMG is practicaly a PPSH, just take the model..mix it around a bit and use the same code/animations and bada bing! Suomi for the Fins.

M28/30, how hard can it be? just like all other rifles...no extra code required.

The Lhati LMG, just use the B.A.R animations, and give it a nice model/skin :)

Im sure if anyone can do i in a flash, FH dev team can :) but I suppose it'd come second or even third priority to the Italians and French, not forgetting the Poles.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Polish stuff should definately come first. I hope to see a Panzer I someday in a bf mod. Maybe a "Little Tiger" also..

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

well guys they wont do any new finnish stuff and if i remeber right i PMd hartmann and asked if the finns could get Mosin nagats and DP1928 and Panzerfasuts in Karelia to make it more Acurate ... and he said that they had changed it :) and Grease Monkey if it so easy liek you say you can do it for your self :)

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Little Tiger? Is that the Panzer II L (Lynx)? Would be really cool, they were used even in 1944.

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haha...no way, asking me to model/skin/code is like telling the world to come to its senses. It aint gonna happen, I suck at that stuff..what I meant was it'd be easy for the FH dev team to do it because a) they are talented people b) they have experience and c) Im crap at making stuff :)

EDIT: found something on the Panzer II L:

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/luchs_1.jpg

'Panzerspahwagen II Ausf L Luchs - Sd.Kfz.123 (VK 1303).'

20mm main gun - 320 rounds of ammo.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

löl that Tank looks damn cool was it any good or did it suck ?

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Actually the Little Tiger was a retrofitted Panzer I Ausf. F, not a Panzer 2 Luchs. The Panzer 2 Luchs was used as a late-war reconissance vehicle and had a little more then twice the armor of a stock Panzer II (would aslo be cool to see that).

The "Little Tiger" was supposed to be used during the invasion of Crete but was instead sent to Leningrad. Eastern front.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/pz1f_5.jpg

It's a heavily armored Panzer I tank. After 1938 they stopped seeing any use for Panzer I tanks so a bunch of them got retrofitted into nifty vehicles. Only 30 Little Tigers were made

http://www.ww2modelmaker.com/images/Pan143.JPG

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Panzer I was used until 1942... but since only 30 of that version were made it seems low prio. A real Panzer I would be a different matter.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

hmm only 30 is that enough for being in FH ?

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Probably not unless they just modify a Panzer I model they have laying around somewhere.

Panzer 35t, Panzer I, SiG guns, etc.. there's lots of cool early war stuff that would be good for Poland. I'd like to see some more Polish tanks or tankettes as well.

EDIT:

Found picture of the M/28-30 Pyrskiova Finnish rifle -
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/...es/finn.j1.jpg

It's a Mosin with 1 or 2 changes.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Wouldn't want to hijack his thread like a certain other finn... I'll make a new and so we can revel at Polish armor!
Edit: too tired right now..

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

:wtf::Censored::furious:

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

I think FH needs a 1940 Karelia map too, all they have to do is toggle the post-1940 weapons and add snow...

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Learn some things before you go around talking about stuff you have no idea of.

Lenin gave Finland "freedom" from the control of the Soviet Union. Several decades later, they (USSR) wanted to expand thier border to have more buffer between the border and thier cities, so they offered Finland some land elsewhere in exchange for that particular buffer zone. The Finns refused, so USSR attacked.

Yes, USSR had heavy losses because they didn't expect Finns to cause that much resistance and USSR thought they could just walk over them, which turned to be a very costly mistake. Nonetheless, the USSR got the extra buffer zone they wanted, which was the cause of the conflict in the first case, and since USSR had no intentions of conquering Finland, they left.

Saying that USSR was beaten by Finland is same as saying that USA was beaten by Germans on the Omaha beach. In both cases the invading force had very high casualties because they attacked a well defended position, but at the end of the day, in both situations, the invading force got what they wanted (US overran the beach, USSR got the extra buffer zone).

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Yes, let's do that.

That is simply not correct, though often presented. Lenin didn't give us anything, we took our independence. It was only afterwards that Lenin acknowledged our independence, as he calculated that Finland would later join Soviet Union anyhow. But you don't say that the Brits gave the Americans independence just because they aknowledged it afterwards.

On paper Finland lost the war, that's undebatable. But Soviet goals in 1939 were not restricted to a few patches of land to secure Leningrad. Their one and only objective in the war was to annex Finland - march to Helsinki in no more than 2 weeks, hold a massive victory parade and install a communist puppet government that would then "voluntarily" join Finland to Soviet Union. In that they failed. They won the war, but they didn't get what they were after. You could argue that they could have eventually overwhelmed us and conquer the country, but well, they didn't. We lost a lot of territory, but we won our independence.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

HydraSlav, don't stick your nose into stuff you know nothing about. And if you do, please be more polite to people even if they exaggerate stuff. Now Rikupsoni is finnish, and he might have a chance of knowing something about that? It's quite accepted that the Soviets were going to invade Finland, the demands were only a way to make the attack more acceptable. You might have noticed what happened to the Baltic countries?

Poor leadership due to cleanings in the Red Army before the war was one reason to terrible failure, but certainly not the only one, and the army was improved with some results. The Finnish army in the Winter War was very badly equipped and shouldn't have had a chance, but wars usually doesn't end as they were meant to. It was improved and was better in the Continuation War where the equipment was almost as good as that of the Soviets, sometimes even better. Manpower was increased by allowing politically unreliable elements (socialists) to join the army, but still it wasn't enough to counter the millions of men the Soviets could put up against them in the end of the war.
Peace was the only real alternative, Finland could maybe have kept the Soviets away till the Germans surrended, but fighting the entire Red Army wouldn't have been possible for a longer amount of time. (There should be a reason the Red Army in the end of ww2 has been called the most powerful army in the world.) Bad peace was better than occupation.

I agree with Exel.
The independence procedure could be debated, but I will stay out of this this time, except a few words.
Lenin and the rest of the bolsheviks had a civil war to concentrate on, so he thought probably that it would be easier to give areas like Finland independence, and he seems to have believed in a world revolution at that time. We declared ourselves independent, so he didn't give it to us, he might have if he had have the opportunity, but I don't know that much about that.


Btw, why should Finland be forgotten?

Forgive me if I have been stupid, it's too hot here.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

I mean I would like to see continued development of the Finnish but seeing how it would be at the expense of the other five large and delay the French and Italians even more...

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Just a correction, it had a 50mm L/60 gun ;)

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Luchs would be terrific, but it hasn't very high priority I believe.
Italians and French are of course important, but it's possible that the devs aren't too interested in them if they haven't done much of them yet. Speeding up everything in this mod would be a good solution, or what do you think? :D
Wasn't there btw something about more frequent updates after 0.6? It feels like months since 0.61, not that it really matters, it's still interesting to play, not like 0.5 a few months before 0.6, and I even played it a bit then, but it wouldn't harm if 0.62 was released next week...

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

You should know better than to take what they say literally..

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Well,Finland was good in this way: After Finland defeated Russia, Hitler saw the Russians as "weak" and thus broke the non-agression pact and made Russia on our side.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Barbarossa would have happened anyway...

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Yes,later in the war...Hitler would probally initiate Barbarossa after defeating other countries because he would have been allies with Russia then.

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Yeah, and i am Russian, and i know "my side". Which side is "correct" can't be proven. Even if you ask the veterans who participated in it first hand, Finns will say what you said, Russians will say what i said.

There are certain facts, but they can be shapped in either direction
Fact: Finnland became independant.
My story: Finland was always trying to become independant for a long time, but it was only while Lenin was in power that he "let" them become so.
Your story: Finland decided to become independant, siezed the moment, declared it, and Lenin acknowledged it only later.

As i said, which side is "correct" can be debated for ever.

Hmm, after he said "Finland kicked Russians a***s", i think my post was pretty "polite". The reason why i posted is because of this comment from him. Would he have said "Finland managed to withstand a big Russian assualt with minimal casualties by using better tactics", then i wouldn't have said anything. But "Finland kicked Russian buts" is simply not true, because Russia got what it wanted. Yes, it was with great casualties, since Russia underestimated Finland and didn't use any tactics. But as i said, you don't say "Germans kicked USA ass" because of the casualties on Omaha Beach, so ....

I never said that, i got nothing against it

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

I think there is more important stuff, e.g Pz 3, jap SMG, just basic stuff, then countries that were involved in large and well known battles.

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As far as i remember, Forgotten Hope was initially started to add earlier war stuff and battles that are not "mainstream" in BF42. So, the german Pz3 and other stuff should get the least priority compared to "smaller" battles

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Well look at that..it changed! Therefore you're wrong! The smaller battles should have the least priority, people would rather play with PZ3's then friggin goddamn 7tps and stupid "one difference" weapons.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Sorry then. Finnish "proverb" If you kill one russian, always two russians come.


If Russia wanted some extra zone, it was expensive; ~280 000 soldiers, was it worth it?

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It might be possible to prove if somebody someday find documents in Russian archieves, but it won't happen too soon, if ever, I guess.

I'm sorry, I had no idea whatsoever you were Russian, you haven't your location in your profile... Not that Russian education about the wars agaisnt Finland would be too correct, but still, being Russian gives IMO you a right to speak whatever you want in this matter.
The Russian revolution gave us the chance to become independent, so in that matter Lenin gave us freedom, but the government before the revolution had problems in ww1 and wouldn't have much time to attack Finland, so independence might have been possible even without the revolution. But whatever Lenin wanted he had no choice but let Finland become independent, he had all chances to loose control in Russia and therefore had to concentrate on keeping it.
His lack of power was seen in the Finnish civil war when he couldn't help the red side more than he did (mostly due to peace with Germany), and the conservative white side won the war and slaughtered a lot of the loosing side. If he had been able to do what he wanted he should have been able to send troops to support a socialist country with sympathies to the Soviet union. Lenin did actually never get that kind of total power Stalin got, although he maybe wanted it, he died too early.

Stalin wanted the whole country, or at least most of it, why would medals for the Heroes who captured Helsinki etc. otherwise have been needed? The whole country would have been a much better buffert zone than only those parts he asked for, so he calculated that we wouldn't accept his unfair proposal and would give him a reason to invade. Maybe he also wanted to test his army in combat before meeting harder opponents, who knows.

You could try searching a bit on the Internet, but I don't know what kind of info you will find, even one supposedly semiofficial/official educational place wrote that Finland attacked the CCCP on the Winter War. I know that even some Finnish veterans might say things besides the truth, but Soviet vets really have reasons to, they have to believe in what they say because they don't like doing wrong, and therefore it is easier to be called a hero if you the only thing you really did was killing civilians, old people, children and women, and destroying their property. They might not always even know the thruth themselves, some might have believed the propanganda they were told, and some might still be too scared to tell the truth. And some will say the truth, as already seen in e.g. TV documents.


That last part with "...forgotten..." was to FactionRecon, I forgot to mention it.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

So basicly what you're saying is that if Amaccan hadn't joined the team with his Polish minimod and complete 7TP the team would have completed the Panzer III faster.

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You all know there's a whole mod for finland right- http://www.finnwars.com/

Its neat to see these smaller armies in FH, but they take a huge amount of work for what they offer. I would take many other things before a bunch of finnish stuff, especially since its only on that 1 map that I don't even like much anway.

For the bunch of new weapon models, flags, and voice commands for the finns there's other armies that would take priority. I mean comon the Italians and French aren't even in yet.

In the interim, though if your desperate for finland stuff there's a whole mod there. I ahven't tried it yet but it looks pretty cool.

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FW hasn't coop support and they aren't going to make some, or that's what they said at their forums. And I happen to like coop, but of course I like Karelia too, so maybe I am just odd.

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Well the real motivator would be if some of the mappers would come up with some more Polish and Finnish maps to use the equipment. If there are many places to show off the equipment, it becomes more easy to justify the modelling and coding.

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NP, sorry if i sounded rude. Hehe, and in this case, it was 2 Russians vs 2 Finns :D

Was Stallingrad battle worth it? After all, it was just rubble, but they were still fighting for it. This is along the same principle.

Yeah, and "branching to cover other areas" does not mean "lose focus on the original goal". If it branches to cover all areas, there should be equal emphasis on all of them, and since there is already plenty of Panzers, it's time for something new

Re: Add this stuff to Karelia
 

Look at how many pnz3's were made compared to how many 7tps..

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So it's Amaccans job?

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Oh yea? Look at how many Russian soldiers died, far more then any other country (maybe not Japan, i don't know the exact figures). So according to your logic, we should just have Russian soldiers in the mod just because there was more of them? Yeah sure ..... what an argument ....

We already have plenty of German tanks, some 7tps (don't even know what it is) would be really nice