The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Ok, I dont know what it is, I cant put my finger on it, but I feel like something is very very wrong with the Tiger. The original Tiger that is, its turret dont move, its shots dont hurt, and its armor got soft.

Lets examine the evidence...

-Using the mouse, the turret turns less than the Stug's stationary gun. I mean cmon people, the damn turret was slow, but not this slow. There was also an extra gear that made it go fast! So please, lets fix the turret! Bring it back to the 5.x movement.

-Boom, swoosh, pop? And the winner is the Firefly, who took a direct hit (in the front), and didnt die! I'd expect this from a T34, but a Sherman? Whats gotten into the minds of these developers? The 88 has been weakened, that or the Firefly is now Godlike. Something needs to be fixed. Fast.

-The tank commander says "Oh nos!! Me Armor is no armor!". This when the Firefly will destroy your tiger with two frontal shots. FRONTAL!!! NO TILT! Someone explain the physics behind this genious idea.

So theres your three clues as to what has been done to the Tiger. My kitty just doesnt roar these days like it used to. Sure its great on the defence, if you park your ass and wait, but theres something that just bothers me about a Firefly being able to knock me out. Most of the time I dont see those damn things because I cant turn my turret, and when I locate them my tank is usually on fire.

ANOTHER MOST DISCUSTINGLY ANNOYING THING!

Suicide planes. What the ____ people! I swear to god, If the Tiger was a air magnet in real life, the Allies wouldnt have any planes to fight in europe. All I get these days is suicides. Tiger or TigerB, your automatically a plane magnet. There should be a restriction to this bull. Something like tieing a person up to an electric chair, so that when he decides to commit suicide, he can feel the pain in real life.

Swear to God, .6 was supposed to fix this, I feel they made it worse. Now the allies have two targets, they used to have one. These days, the Tigers are going extinct. Someone should reduce crash damage to a maximum of 25% of health, this way if the tigers damaged, it can be a finishing move, but if the person in the plane is just trying to suicide for the hell of it, he can take the damage himself.

Now a little off the topic. Here is a list of the goodies that should get included sometime in the neer future.

-Panzer3 with a 50mm gun.
-Hetzer (Jagd38t)
-JagdPanther
-Hummel
-PzKpfw 38(t)
-KV1

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

The tiger 1's turret rotation speed was 360 degrees in 23 seconds. In FH this is a lot less. so I'm fine with this.
A firefly could take out a tiger in one shot in real life, certainly from the side and the back. The front armour would take 2 shots.

You should not engage targets head-on though, try to attack them from te sides. Certainly if they're targets that are a thread to your tank, such as the firefly.

I do agree on the planes, I once escorted a friend of mine (who was in a king tiger) in the ostwind on breakthrough. I managed to kill 5 planes, but the sixth hit him (suicide) and unbelievable the guy who rammed him thought he'd had done something that takes skill...

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

the tiger I if you notice, turns itself pretty quick. mix both turret turn and body turn to get to your target quickly. pluss leaving your sides open for an attack is an automatic death. keep that front of your tank pointing to the enemy. if you dont you expose the tigers weak spots (tracks and rear) to fire. use the fact that it requires you to turn the body. every tank in this game has a different stratagy to actualy win. play by yourself a little and find the different ways to use it.

tiger was very good at distance. the weaker cannons could not do much to it, but get close enough, any cannon could do damage to it. so with the tiger I keep your distance. you will live a much happier life

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

I think one way to prevent the suicide planes would be to have more team work, ie AA follows tiger, and also a Wirbelwind tank, it was a vierling on a Pz4 body i believe

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

At the moment the only AAA the Germans have is the Ostwind and the 8 ton 1/2 track with the quad 20mm in the back.

The Tiger has a 1:1 width to length ratio. That means it can turn extremely wellw ithin its own length. That is why many Tiger Aces like Wittman used it like a Stug. A Firefly, M10, and M36 should have no problem killing the Tiger from side or reear but I find it odd that the Firefly didnt die in one shot from the 88. The 88 should kill be able to kill the Sherman if it can see it. I dont thinkthe BF engine supports 3000m visual range.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

I just went onto Aberdeen and drove the Tiger over to the Brit base to play.

After firing roughly 30 test shots I discovered these facts.

1) Even at what I considered lethal range the Tiger I could not kill the Sherman nor the Firefly through the front hull or turret in one shot.

2) All shots to side or rear were one shot one kill.

BUT

When I did remember where the German gunner aimed for on Shermans I was able to get one shot one kills even from medium range.

German gunners aimed for the front differential cover that coveres the front lower hull of the Sherman.

Make sure you are using textures full on. Line up bottom of center triangle with the bottom edge of Shermans front hull and I think you will be happy with the results. :)

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

fireflys were MENT to kill tigers. Keep that in mind.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Still the Tiger is one of the last tanks I´d pick in FH depending on the map. I just don´t have the patience to drive the slug around for 5 min, to the next base, and then only to be wasted by some cheap ass tank I can´t line up, because the turret turn so VERY DAMNED SLOW...

Here playability should go over realism...

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Huh? turn the entire tank next time. It turns faster than any turret can.

BTW, what do you mean by "cheap ass"?
Do you mean they spent the time to find a good hiding place and wait patiently for a lone tank to come by?

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

As me and me lad, Oddball_E8 mentioned in another thread we were unable to kill a panzer IV using the 88. I can't seem to recollect which map it was, but Oddball fired a stationary 88 at a pzkpfw IV point blank at it's front without killing it. Later, on the same map, I fired one shot at the side of another panzer IV with the 88 and it kept on going.
Now, this is just plain wrong....no chance in hell that a panzer IV would survive in any of those two scenarios.

//A_Rude_Gesture

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

98% chance the 88 was in flak mode rather than AP mode.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Yes, but the fact remains, 88mm on a Tiger vs Sherry anywhere = 1 shot kill. So what happened to this realism mod? Look, Im going to be honest. Theres just two things that piss me off in 0.61, and they are:

1. Suicide planes. Which were supposed to be fixed!
2. Weak pathetic 88mm on the friggen Tiger!

Whats next?

We make the King Tiger an equal of a IS2?
Or maybe a Sherman as strong as a Tiger?

Oh wait, pardon me, a Sherman can kill a Tiger. A Sherman called "Firefly", and theres no friggen difference between it and a Tiger, except for the fact a "Firefly" moves faster, has a turret move faster and guess what, it has magical friggen armor.

Why dont we just stop bullshiting ourselfs.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

if you dont remember sloped armored get a deflection hp boost. just accept it

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Fireflies die after one hit more often than not.

And Tigers are still pretty good.. if you turn your whole tank.

This thread is stupid.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

What's your problem with Kingtiger and IS2?

The Sherman has only one place where it can survive an 88mm hit, and that be the front. Every other place one hit will do. I can only repeat again and again: We use the weakest AT ammo for each gun, because of the limited distances on BF maps.

The Fireflys gun is a little bit weaker than the 88L56, and it can be killed by even a PanzerIV without mouch trouble. You have to keep in mind that the Firefly is the best the western allies have atm. If a Firefly couldn't kill a Tiger (What it was built for), the western Allies wouldn't have no tank able to encounter a Tiger

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

No, what I mean with "cheap" is that I also considered the Tiger to be a powerfull and dangerous tank which should be feared. But in combat you can easyly get wasted by any standard enemy tank with ease because you can´t line up your gun, and they know it.

But good tipp with turning the torso. I didn´t think of that...

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

I find the current Tiger much more realistic and gameplay wise than the 0.5 one. It actually has weakspots and doesn't feel like a huge fucking solid piece of metal. It's still very effective in skilled hands, you just can't expose its side plating anymore to tanks, that were built to destroy it and therefore you have to be more aware of your surroundings. Don't let yourself to be surprised. Yesterday on Valirisk, I pulled 15/0 and 7/0 with it, until getting killed by group of bazookamen assisted by T34/85.

And another great thing about it is, that I actually get to play Valirisk on axis too. The spawnspot isn't surrounded by campers either and both times I got the tank, it was just laying there with no one around. I'd actually like to get to play Valirisk on Russia sometimes too, in 0.6.

But I agree, Sherman surviving from hit in the frontal armor doesn't feel right, not that it really matters as long as it isn't a Firefly. The regular Sherman can't do shit against the Tiger.

The new Tiger damage models were one of my favorite improvements in 0.6.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

It's just good that the Tiger isn't godlike anymore. Granted, it shouldn't be underpowered either, but in 0.5 it was just too powerful, more than it should be. That much is obvious. And as for turning the torso to face the enemy instead of turning the turret, well, that's a very basic tactic everyone should know.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Pzgranate 39 (which I guess is the one modeled for the tiger) was able to penetrate 120mm armour at 100 meters and 110mm armour at 500 meters if it were sloped 30 degrees from vertical. The firefly, if I remember correctly, had 108mm frontal armour sloped at app. 45 degrees from vertical, giving it better deflection properties that 30 degrees of vertical. So 2 shots for a frontal kill with 88mm KwK 36 L/56 seems fair to me.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

IRL there was the little thing called normalization and T/d

When the T-34 came out the Germans were using a hard ballistic cap to try and use brute force and velocity to penetrqte the armor. But the hard cap AP round just richocheted off the sloped armor.

It was then discovered that if you used a soft metal cap that when the round hit the soft metal would drag on the sloped surface and the friction would actually change the trajectory of the shell and pull it into the armor flat, thus "normalizing" the sloped armor effect.

That is why almost all German AP rounds were later Armor Piercing Composite Ballistic Cap. Soft ballistic cap AP rounds are not as effective against vertical armor because the cap has a tendancy to get crushed rather than penetrate.

T/d is thickness divided by diamater. If a tank hull is 75mm thick and vertical and a 50mm round there is no chance of penetration. But you can dial up the velocity to the point that the 50mm round can penetrate.

A 75mm round, all things being equal, has a 50/50 chance of penetrating. The thickness of the armor equals the diamater of the shell and they cancel each other out. But by dialing up the velocity just a little bit the 75mm round can penetrate.

A 88mm round travelling at the same velocity as the 75mm round hitting the 75mm armor is larger in diamater than the thickness of the 75mm armor. All things being equal the 88mm round should pentrate.

And with sloped armor if the diamater of the round incoming is a certain ratio larger than the thickness of the armor then the sloped effect doesnt even work.

And the Sherman with its 55mm sloped armor was a pig waiting to be roasted.And we all know the Germans designed excellent high velocity guns and had excellent AP ammo. Even a PzIV F2 and later had no problems killing a Sherman.

If you look at past posts I was one of the people that said the Tiger should not be changed.

What I asked for was that the guns that could kill Tigers be strengthened to do so, which FH did. But I also said the Sherman should not be made stronger.

By making the Sherman able to survive a direct hit from a 88mm to the front armor you have done is made the Sherman a Western Allied uber tank that a tanker can now take toe to toe against a Tiger and in real life a Sherman was meat on the table for a Tiger.

The Firefly was never used to lead the charge against the Tigers, the Firefly was used from cover in a overwatch position almost like a Tank Destroyer.The German gunners were ordered to look for and kill any long barreled Shermans with a muzzle brake, hence the reason why you see the Shermans with fake muzzle brakes and cammo barrels.

In my humble opinion the 88mm gun now acts like the 75mm L/48 firing PzGr 39 should act. I am of the opinion that the 75mm long barrels as used in the PzIV F2, PzIV H , and the PAK40 are wimpy.

And for the record you can kill a Sherman/Firefly in one shot to the frontal armor. Aim for the differential cover on the lower front hull.

And if you want to leave the Sherman model as is then I officially ask that the Sherman models receive the applique armor like the sandbags, tank tracks, logs, etc. that were attached to the hull by desperate tank crews to reduce the chance of a AP round or faust penetrating.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Theres a reason why it seems like there are a lot of banzi pilots the new plane physics I mean trying to fly with new physics is hard enough but trying to take out a tank is suicide. I was really dissapointed with what the devs have done to the aircraft but not only have they annoyed the fly boys but also the so called tank commanders.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

maybe all u guys who are bitching about the tiger sucking just suck in a tiger and need to make excuses to make urselves feel better... i have seen tigers pwn a whole army of tanks all by itself in FH so i dont think its the tiger i think its the tanker.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Weird, I've never survived a direct hit from a tiger in any western tank except the churchill(I was in a KT, hit the side armor at a bad angle, and I was in a churcill, got hit the front armor straight on, but most of the time the KT one hit kills churchills, also, both of those brought the churchil down to smoking)

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Maybe you should know what the hell your talking about before opening your mouth. Go back to DC you nOOb.

The only way a Tiger owns now is if the other team is incompetent. I could kill a Tiger before but you had to stalk it and go for the side shot. Now a Tiger is a fairly easy kill.

The Tiger was fine before, all they have done now is dumb it down so Shermans and T-34's dont get owned as much. Makes for better gameplay but hard to call it realistic and this is billed as a realism mod.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Odd that I went on Aberdeen and took a Tiger over to the Brit base and sat and did target practice on teh Fireflies and Shermans. Only way I could get 1 shot 1 kill was to aim for the differential cover. That is realistic as the Sherman had a flaw in the casting there that allowed penetrations easier. The 3 piece bolted section was just plain weak.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Odd, I remember on breakthrough I would get one hit kille by front shots from Tigers all the time so I had to dodge, I could survive one hit from the 76mm on PIVH and Stug IIIs, but the 88 one hit killed me all the time....weird that you don't get one hit killed(The Sherman should get one hit killed in a hit to the front)

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Claiming the tiger is a fairly easy kill is bs. Try getting to any of the flags in Valirisk while a Tiger is on the hill overlooking the road coming from Russian main.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

I think the Tiger could use a slight increase of armour, but I think it's fine as it is. I usually turn the whole body towards my target, since you want to face them with frontal armour anyway. Kinda like driving the Stug. Although I really hate the Stug, since it has the worst field of view ever, and it's turret can't even face the ground within (what?) 50 meters or so.

I think Tiger should be able to take out Shermans with one shot, but don't make them explode. One frontal shot should cause 99% damage, for example, as long as it is enough to make the tank disabled, yet not explode. This solves the "lame" idea for the Allies since they can bail out, and solves the "lame" idea for the axis, since they are now able to take out Shermans with one shot.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

:thumbsdown:

1) I don't play DC
2) Before you call someone a 'nOOb' (unless they ask in a forum how to get in a vehicle) you should play with them... because I will pwn you.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

You dont wanna get called a nOOb then dont come on here talkin your shit.

You wouldnt know a real gangsta if he walked up and pimp slapped you and said give me your wallet.

I have played the game and I have bothered to research the equipment so even if you do manage to beat me it doesnt change the fact the your just a punk ass wanna be gangsta poser who doesnt know shit about the equipment were talking about.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

I think Driver does a really poor job of presenting what he sees as a problem. To me he sounds like a baby crying.... Anyways, the Tiger is fine how it is. It's always been a good idea to turn the whole body instead of the turret, even in .5. Fact is, you just can't use the damn thing properly. If you suck in it, that's your own fault. I refuse to believe it's inherrent problems in the system when I can hop in the tiger and go 15-0 or so consistently. Learn to use the tank properly before you go crying about how it sucks now.

And what the hell are you talking about they said they fixed people kamikazing? I never ever remember them mentioning that was a priority for them to fix.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

1) Grab a T-34/85. Learn to shoot on the move

1a)T-34's are fairly fast(although it seems they dropped the speed by a fair bit). Speed is life. Minimize your turns since you slow down when turning.

2) Terrain and trees are your friend. Use them for cover.

2a) The river crossing is your friend. Use it. Germans get real testy when you get in their rear area and kill anything approaching the bridge to reinforce their buddies. And If you catch the Tiger moving up you can ambush it in the side.

3) Two shots into Tigers side hull and its dead. 4 or 5 shots in rear and its dead, but most Tiger drivers are not willing to wait after the first 2.

I have been the T-34 trying to get out of the Russian base and I have been the Tiger on the hill. When the Russians get pushed back tot eh point they cant get out of their base you have alot more to worry about than a lone Tiger on the hill.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

I certainly don't need a lesson in tank tactics, thank you!
You cant hit a Tiger's turret sticking over the top of a hill at 700-800 meters on the move, altough he can hit you pretty easily.
There was a tank ace ( SLO lundenberg or something, the guy hits 99% of his shots ) with an engineer on that hill, and you know as well as I do the only way to get passed that is using the riverbank, or having a very lucky break.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

My point was to use speed and terrain cover to get close enough to kill him. The old Tiger was harder to kill. It used to take me 4 or 5 shots to kill a Tiger in the side.

The new Tiger only takes two shots in the side. How you get into that position to kill a Tiger is your problem.

I always try to get to the Tigers sides and not be one of the stupid fucks that comes straight at him or stops in the open and tries to engage the Tiger with a long range gunnery duel.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Yes, and my point is the Tiger is nothing near to an easy kill in the right hands.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

So fucking what?

So now you have to start laying down conditions? "Its gotta be on this map in this location and it has to be an expert Tiger Ace"

How often does a Tiger Ace get the Tiger on a Public server? every time? every couple of times?

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Someone needs to take a deep breath.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Analushac why u gotta be a dick and argue with everyone. just accept that fact that you are wrong. the tiger is hard to kill. the end.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

The Ostwind has a single 37mm flak 37 even in game.

The wirbel wind has the quad 20mm flak 38, but it is not in FH.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Ahhh its my favorite gangsta wanna be. Come to dazzle us once again with your dazzling repartee?

Look back at my past posts and you will see that when I have been wrong I have admitted it and stated as such. But I am not usually wrong.

I bother to research and read up on the subject Im arguing about. You on the other hand have done nothing but come on here running your mouth like you are someone important and you arent.

I only argue or reply when I see erroneous information or if someone asks a question and it has not been answered correctly yet. If someone has answered the question correctly I sometimes comment on it or add to the information. What have you contributed?

My original point: The original FH Tiger had a good gun and good armor as it should have. But certain weapons that should have killed a Tiger with one hit to the side did hardly any damage to it. The US M1A1 76mm gun, the US 90mm M3, the Brit 17lbr., and the Russian D-5 85mm gun all were way underpowered. The FH team changed the guns in 0.6 to where they kill in 2 shots. But while the Tiger's 88mm L/56 is still sttrong it feels like it has been weakened. I understand that this was done in the interest of gameplay. I dont agree with it but I understand it.

My point 2: On a Public server the average Tiger driver is not a Tiger ace. He is a player who wants to grab the Tiger because it is the only tank most of them know by name and they know its reputation. They are usually easy to kill. Occasionally you get the guy who knows how to use it and that guy you have to be extra careful with. On publics Tiger Aces are the exception not the norm. I have killed more Tigers in FH 0.6 than I did in 0.5 because the Tiger is much easier to kill.

The other day on Bulge I saw a US A/T guy take out a Tiger that had crossed the North Bridge with nothing more than a bazooka. Took a few shots but he did it. No way in hell would a bazooka kill a Tiger in 0.5 unless you brought friends with bazooka's.

Violator and I are in disagreement but I respect his right to disagree and have listened to his points. Some I can see where he is coming from and some I dont agree with.

But Little gangster boy what have you contributed to the conversation other than coming in and acting all bad and important? Not a damm thing.


@The Move: The Wirbelwind is the German AAA tank I have requested be put in game. On some of the maps there was a version of the 8 ton 1/2 track like the version used to tow the 88 except the AAA version had the quad 20mm in back. I know it used to be in El Alamein but not sure which maps have it now.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Well, how did the Bazooka guy kill the tiger? The only way a Bazooka can in 4 shots is through the top hatch, which used to be a one hit kill anyway.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

The Tiger could very well have been damaged before it got across the bridge.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

I just tested the bazooka on Bulge and it takes 7 shots to the side to kill the Tiger so yes the Tiger would have had to have been damaged before the A/T guy killed it.

Oddly enough it takes 7 shots to kill the Tiger II also. Tiger II should have been harder to kill in the side than the Tiger

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

It is kinda funny. They took parachutes out, so now people would much RATHER slam the plane into a ground target if they get in without a pilot kit, it's better then trying to land it and you get a kill. And the kits aren't always readily availible...

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Nah, theres always been a Kamikaze problem when it comes to anything called "TigeR". Funny thing is, if one of those plances did kamakaze a Tiger, I highly dubt it would do that much damage, unless they used a C47 or something of a larger size than a fighter.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

It would possibly flip the tiger. And since all the explosives inside the plane(fuel) it would do a good amount of damage

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Man, a Tiger should get a penetration anywhere on a Sherman and it is TOTAL bullshit that it doesn't unless it is at an extremely oblique angle. They have NERFED the Tiger I and have basically ruined it. It is bullshit.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

I seem to remember one of the FH staff saying that they did it to improve gameplay since the US doesnt have a good tank yet.

Therefore GIVE US THE M4A3E2 "JUMBO" WITH 76MM GUN! :) That could be the US heavy til the M26 entered service.

Very heavily armored version of the M4A3 Sherman that weighed 42 tons, almost as much as the M26 Pershing heavy's weight of 46 tons.

According to this site: http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m4sherman.html#JUMBO
The Jumbo had a relative armor thickness of 141mm front hull, a new one piece extra thick differential cover, 178mm gun manlet, 150mm turret side and rear, and 76mm upper hull sides. Only problem was road speed was reduced from 46 KPH to 36 KPH

If FH is going to redo the Sherman's the "Jumbo" should be first followed by the M4A1.

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

If i rmember right the shermans armor was nothing, The tiger could penetrate from any angle at a range max of 1000m i think while the shermans gun could penetrade the frontal armor of a tiger at ANY range (including point blank)

Re: The Tiger goes "Roar", but the people yawn.
 

Yep that sounds about right and whoever said that is a total idiot. The damn thing is not in every map and nerfing A SINGLE TANK which is not even in every map because the Allies do not have good armor is about the most idiotic assbackwards idea and this person probably has DC and Dice stamped on their foreheads. Gaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh

okay im done now.