Obama back in the pulpit

[jumjum]

Originally Posted by Moose12

....You would flip a gasket if we started making anti-mccain and anti-george bush threads......

Which is why there aren't any, right?

Originally Posted by Stefan F

....Hmm OBama doesnt want to change anything? look at his record, smooth as a baby's behind.....

Meh, I was gonna just slide on all this stuff, but then I saw this line....and I became uneasy. This can only mean a dangerously deluded person is lose in this world. Quick, stop him before he slips across the border as an illegal alien and is immediately welcomed into the Democrat Party, registered as a voter and signed up for Social Security and Medicare.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Zzzzzzz
I come back to this?
Where are the breasts? The humorous stories? The FH:OT of old? The FH:OT we fought to save?
This is nothing but boring political hackery. Zzzzz, I repeat.

Lemme see here, where did I put that folder...Ah, here it is - "Jennifer Connelly Shrine"

Spoiler:

[stylie]

LOL @ "Hope"!!!! That kills me, here comes the next president to make you feel better. Please someone let me know the last great thing any president ever did. Im thinking maybe The Berlin Wall??? Maybe? Stop putting your eggs in one basket people, if you really want change you should be voting locally anyway. A president is simply gonna make life cheaper/more expensive, dont believe their hype. Stefan, If an oil company gets hit with extra taxes/penalties... do you think it will hurt them??? No, it will not hurt them one bit, they will pass it off to consumers anyway, and its a nice tax benefit to the government without actually pissing off the people, well at least people like you, you'll feel good that the evil oil companies got hurt, all the while you'll be paying for it a nickel at a time. Government gets yet more money, Then they can still tell you that it is time to raise taxes, cause that winfall thing was paid for by those money misers known as oil companies, right? Yeah, this one new tax is gonna be for YOU.

I would rather businesses never be taxed, because as I said, they pass it off to consumers anyway. Id rather things be called what they really are.

[Stefan F]

I was explaining the logic behind the taxes, not saying it was a good thing, i think you have to rather look at his policies regarding energy which do look good, even if its not the easy way out.

Obama isnt my hero or the perfect politician but he does alot of stuff right, its him and McCain now, pretty easy choice i would think ...If you apply the personal critizism outed on Obama to McCain...till i read some peoples opinion here....

Bush has almost been in office for 8 years, remember how life was 8 years ago? Cheap gas, economy going great, USA has huge respect and was looked upon around the world... Its like night and day difference with today, i dont want to start a discussion about bill clinton or my statement itself, but pointing out how Bush is to blame for almost everything...
Then you have McCain someone who was not for bush at all 8 years ago, objected some of his policies 4 years ago, and has now streamlined his policies with Bush ....and some more.Even if it was someone 1/4th with the positive sides of Obama it would be 10 times better then McCain, i would basicly vote for anyone else besides hitler or stalin.

I dont understand knowing and understanding this how you can still think about voting for McCain, please explain me that in detail.

Obama wont make USA paradise within 4 years , he doesnt promise that, what of his policies are so out of touch with reality, or impossible to archieve? All i see is people trying to redicule his "hope and change", but when i ask what that "hope and change" means people are totally out of touch with what Obama says it means, and if you dont take OBamas word, then you cant take anyones word.

Not sure why i bother trying to discuss or type this out, reading posts from the ones like the guy i had to correct make me figure i need to do my best to inform readers of this forum as the media seems to do a bad job at it, yet when i do try to discuss and point out stuff, they ignore most of my post and try to pick out certain parts, trying to "prove" me wrong thinking "haha got him on that one!" while pulling facts out of their ass, do i look that stupid?

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Originally Posted by Stefan F

wow....dont join discussion groups my friend, you would get bitchslapped by the chess players!

I've been debating politics on the interwebs for the better part of this decade.

Originally Posted by Stefan F

Where to start...Paragraph of numbo jumbo right, didnt see the part where Change is about changing the way politics are done? no fear mongering to get votes, not accepting lobying money, not be influenced by special interests etc

See the section of my post about Obama refusing to actually talk about the issues with McCain.

Originally Posted by Stefan F

I dont know how you came up with the voting on emotions part, people know the issues very well, the hope part is about giving people something to look forward to, and the whole you know thing im not gonna explain it again.

No they don't.

I don't think you've talked to too many American voters.

Originally Posted by Stefan F

Hmm OBama doesnt want to change anything? look at his record, smooth as a baby's behind. Who cares about the chicago democratic party? this is about obama going for president and not the chicago democratic party, they can eat babies for breakfast who cares?

Here's Obama's record of legislative accomplishments:



































Riiight, that record says a lot about his commitment to "change" and "hope" and "a new kind of politics."

Originally Posted by Stefan F

Also i didnt say McCain has no policies( besides taking over most of Bush his policies) I stated whenever i see him talk its about breaking down Obama, instead of simply talking about his own policies.

I take it you don't watch much American news?

Originally Posted by Stefan F

-Tax on oil companies: They have many many billions profit now,when oil prices are claimed on high demand, most of this profit is from speculation aka artificially raising prices, through this tax the more they "speculate" more and more will go back to the ppl itself through the tax, which can be spend on healthcare or whatever.

"most of this profit is from speculation aka artificially raising prices"

Economists deny this. In a commodities market, for every person speculating on a high price someone else is speculating on a low price.

Oil prices are high partly because of OPEC which is a cartel whose purpose is to artificially keep prices high, rather than a true free market.

All taxes are ultimately taxes on the consumer. See Stylie's post.

Originally Posted by Stefan F

-Kissing butts of leaders of rogue states: Actually its called talking with other leaders, kissing butt would make it seem like he would give them anything and not ask anything, has been covered so much in the media and he explained it so many times... Basicly what has been accomplished by not talking? nothing. What has been accomplished by talking ? alot more.
You say its wrong to talk to leaders of rogue states? for me there are no rogue states, all countries have accepted leaders, Iran for example has a democratic elected leader, with as many faults as florida voting.
Even the current Bush administration talks to these "rogue states", for example Lybia was an axis of evil member, through negotiations they quit their WMD programs, same for north kora they quit their program too and are to be removed from the axis of evil list within days now, and north korea prob has the most repressive dictator of them all.Oh and it didnt need butt kissing at all.

What is accomplished by giving leaders like Kim Jung Il the attention they are craving?

Bush's entire strategy with N. Korea centered around not giving them a platform on the world stage.

Libya was never an "axis of evil" member.

You don't understand how much a rogue state leader has to gain from sitting down and talking on an equal level with the President of the United States.

Originally Posted by Stefan F

Abandon iraq and leave allies behind + who would trust the usa after that : Iraq has its own gouvernment, they are grown ups, im sure they can gouvern on their own, no US troops would would make them shape up and realize its up to them to make iraq a better place now without being able to blame the USA, who would trust the usa after that?i didnt think many still did after invading in the first place.

Read history. It took decades for America to gain the world's trust after abandoning South Vietnam in 1975, in violation of the treaties we signed with that country.

Originally Posted by Stefan F

invade pakistan : Well it would be fun if i asked you to quote him , but you wouldnt be able to so ill wrap it up to you.Has also been covered and explained so many times i wonder what sort of news media you look at, if any at all.He said that if they can pin point bin laden, and the pakistani army is unable to act in time, he would order an airstrike without asking permission to the pakistani gouvernment, its something that is already being done by the Bush administration.

Well Pakistan thought it was important enough to protest.

To boot, one of his foreign policy advisers has called for an invasion of Israel.

[stylie]

Originally Posted by Stefan F

i need to do my best to inform readers of this forum as the media seems to do a bad job at it, yet when i do try to discuss and point out stuff, they ignore most of my post and try to pick out certain parts, trying to "prove" me wrong thinking "haha got him on that one!" while pulling facts out of their ass, do i look that stupid?

Stefan, You are passionate and I want to hear what you have to say. Youve tried saying things and then follow up with "Well, Id like to talk about this or that but I'll do it later". And youve dedicated page 3 of this thread to clips from a flaming liberal's site. I went to that site and it was Sean Hannity's worst, only from the other side.

[stylie]

One other thing...
Stefan, Moose... other Obama guys. This is not to flame, this is me being really lazy with an extremely busy week right now. To kind of dovetail off of Mega's comment. Has Obama spearheaded any types of inititiatives I should be aware of? Im more interested in bills or laws that he was responsible for as a Senator, or even City Council type stuff. not the voting record. Im not interested in that. I wanna know how creative he can get. Id also like to know about the initiatives, pass or fail. Serious, honest question, Im not trying to be a douche!!!

[Stefan F]

Originally Posted by stylie

Stefan, You are passionate and I want to hear what you have to say. Youve tried saying things and then follow up with "Well, Id like to talk about this or that but I'll do it later". And youve dedicated page 3 of this thread to clips from a flaming liberal's site. I went to that site and it was Sean Hannity's worst, only from the other side.

well sometimes i just want to make a point with some statement, i say right away i dont want to discuss it like my point about having it better 8 years ago cause i really dont wanna drag this thread to discussing if clinton was good or bad president etc you know ?

Reason i spammed some random McCain crap is that when obama misspoke and this faith topic got their own threads, for no "appearent" reason, like many wondered why it was posted, "we"(dirty leftist liberals!!) suspected it was cause the person tried to discredit Obama aka that only leaves McCain so he prob supports him, which isnt a crime but at least come out and be honest about it instead of going "hey why do i have to be a conservative McCain voter to posts this ????".

The videos and articles represent the same nonsense, McCain misspeaking or still calling vietnamese gooks arent worth its own thread , but i wanted to prove while there are only 2 of those about Obama i could dig up alot of McCain ones within 5 mins , and many more if i wanted to.
The articles shouldnt be taken too serious i agree, 5% fact 95% rambling wich doesnt give us new information, i had to find something quick ya know ?

But none of those matter, only what the president will do matters, so i wish we could talk about that instead.

[Yossarian]

Obama is inexperienced and offers nothing substantial.

McCain is Bush 2: Electric Bugaloo and a crazy racist.


Thread over? Or shall we continue for another 10 pages dancing around these two points.

[stylie]

But what about all the "hope" Yoss?

[Rafterman]

Originally Posted by Stefan F

well sometimes i just want to make a point with some statement, i say right away i dont want to discuss it like my point about having it better 8 years ago cause i really dont wanna drag this thread to discussing if clinton was good or bad president etc you know ?

Reason i spammed some random McCain crap is that when obama misspoke and this faith topic got their own threads, for no "appearent" reason, like many wondered why it was posted, "we"(dirty leftist liberals!!) suspected it was cause the person tried to discredit Obama aka that only leaves McCain so he prob supports him, which isnt a crime but at least come out and be honest about it instead of going "hey why do i have to be a conservative McCain voter to posts this ????".

The videos and articles represent the same nonsense, McCain misspeaking or still calling vietnamese gooks arent worth its own thread , but i wanted to prove while there are only 2 of those about Obama i could dig up alot of McCain ones within 5 mins , and many more if i wanted to.
The articles shouldnt be taken too serious i agree, 5% fact 95% rambling wich doesnt give us new information, i had to find something quick ya know ?

But none of those matter, only what the president will do matters, so i wish we could talk about that instead.

Stefan, you want a policy discussion - well, the faith based initiatives are an Obama policy. It was wrong when Bush proposed it (egad, someone who doesn't like Obama and criticizes Bush - thought they didn't exist) and it's even more wrong now that Obama wants to continue and expand it.

You also seem to allude in your comments that someone is stopping posters from posting supportive threads about Obama. I really don't think that's the case. If someone wants to support "their man" or point out inconsistencies in the other guy's campaign, then go for it. I'm just happy we have a place to talk about these kinds of things.

As far as poking fun of politicians verbal mistakes, it's lots of fun. No one is trying to question anyone's intelligence - well, except for those who did it with Bush. So you can relax. I think we're all intelligent enough to realize that Obama doesn't really think we have 57 States. But it's funny nonetheless.