Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Echoing a post from a few months back that had so many of you in a complete tizzy over the notion that some crazy evangelical Christian like Mike Huckabee could possibly get the Republican nomination for President of the United States, I thought I'd offer the latest Obama campaign flyers that were mailed to every church leader in Kentucky over the past week or so.

As you look at these, keep in mind that poor Huckabee was absolutely castigated by the Left and the US Media for a Christmas message on his website where a book shelf that was behind him in the frame might have sort of looked like a cross. Also, keep in mind that if a Republican even walks by a church he/she is attacked for being some kid of Christian right-wing zealot.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I do't see the big deal? :clueless:

Being religious and/or showing it is one thing, now if the campaign program and speeches implies that the canditate thinks his/her religious views are the correct/best views and/or seems to force his/her views upon other people.

So of somebody says "I believe in god" it's fine with me, whatever makes them feel good. But if they say "we(must) believe in god" that would be quite an other thing since I would disagree with that person.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Obama for Change (+ Hope & Faith)

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I don't care what his religion is, but his Priest is a nut-job. Hes another black person who believes racism can't go both ways.

Listen, racism can go any which direction

White to black
Black to white
Hispanic to White
White to Hispanic
Japanese to white

BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT EXEMPT OF RACISM


Anyways, I don't care about the religion, as long as it doesnt turn into a "Everyone must believe in god" type thing, because thats not right.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Difference is, Rafter, that Mike Huckabee isn't expected by some members of the US population to prove he isn't a Muslim.

Also, while we're on good ol' Mike: Washington Wire - WSJ.com : Huckabee's Obama-NRA Joke Isn't a Crowd Pleaser

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I'm a republican, and I'm a practicing wiccan....

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Vote for Obama...Deus lo Vult! Deus lo Vult!


=p

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

LOL!!! Its that thinking that brings us the 'holy Obama' pictures... As we get through the summer and into fall, the ridiculousness that is a political candidate will come through, from all sides... Like when we see Hillary in a black hair salon/church singing away... Obama hunting/fishing... Bill playing a saxaphone...Kerry out "snowboarding". Its all so ridiculous, when will we call shenanigans on these douchebags??? I dont need their kinder gentler side. I dont give a rats ass what they do with their personal life. How do the masses continue to fall for such trivial things?

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

You forget Rafter that Liberalism is a religion that has its Sacraments (global warming, abortion, homosexual rights,etc.).

So Obama is just revealing his true self as the new High priest of the USA that will expunge all its sins and bring us to be one with the rest of the world...

Once we raise our thermostats and feel sorry for using so much energy will the world now love us (again?)..:rolleyes:

To your original point, it is hypocrasy by the media and really only to be noticed by those that know and believe the media has these tendencies.

The old Knight is back as the sarcastic Knight didn't play well... :)

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I really don't keep track of the presidental ellections as much as i want to. I know alot about the background of Obama, Clinton, And a few others. I without a doubt want Obama to be our next president.

Obama 08'

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/ObamaFish1.jpg

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2008/05/obama420.jpg

Edit: '08 dammit! 08' implies we're living in the ninth century.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

There are two reasons for this. The first is obvious, Huckabee is a Republican, and Obama is a Democrat. Republicans already appeal to right wing evangelical voters. To win an election they must also win support of those with more left wing values. Therefore a republican pushing himself as an evangelist is seen as very right wing, because he starts from the right, and sends right wing messages.

A Democrat however, starts from the left. They must appeal to right wing evangelical values. Therefore when somebody on the left sends out an evangelical message they are reaching out to other voters on the right. (Remember he can't lose the voters on the left cause it is a two party system, nobody else to vote for.) That's why Obama can get away with it, but Huckabee could not.

If that seems unfair, remember that it cuts both ways. Obama would not dare appear at, say, a safe injection clinic. That would be political suicide. He would be seen as a soft liberal. McCain however, as a Republican, could. It would only make him look like a moderate Republican.

Bizarre as it sounds, left politicians can send out right wing messages, but NOT left, and right politicians can send out left wing messages, but not right.

The other reason is a shift in Democrat tactics. They are finally waking up to the incredible folly of ceding the religious votes to the right. (A gianourmas mistake they made in the last half of the 20th century) Christianity does, after all, have some very fine 'leftist' beliefs. It does not have to be a right wing value at all. (Historically, Christians have generally been on the left in democracies.)

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Who, is religion really that important in the United States?

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

So wait, people don't want Obama to be muslim, but if he shows that he's christian, he's not allowed to do that either, it's a lose-lose situation, seems to be what you're saying.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

hmm good points, there is a schizophrenic element here. For instance, take all of the NE working blue collar man (traditional) Im thinking Boston, NY, Philly. Most likely, Italian or Irish, Hispanic I would say the majority of this group, usually a union member (left) but also Catholic (right, by pro life, however often grass roots charity). weird position to say the least. Either way, are there individuals that fall for this propaganda??? Sadly, yes. The young and the stupid. Has Barack come out to play any musical instruments yet? What would a republican do in this situation? Maybe talk about being young ands hitting the pipe or something??? How do republicans participate in this garbage? Seriously, Im just not sure.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Yes, particularly in what is shaping up to be a close race.

Not only religion as in belief of God but which flavor as Mormon vs. Catholic vs. Baptist.

We are still God's country... :)

But that is still not carte blanche to vote for one party or another. I've know Pentecostal/fundementalist Christians support the Democratic party (even with moral shenanigans going on) because they were born into that party and probably more tied to blue collar/union values then religious.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

haha good thing all the Mexicans streaming in here are fairly devout Christians then, eh Gen'l Knight? I mean what if all of our immigrants were Muslims, the face of America would change.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Si err I mean ghyes... :)

Not that there is anything wrong with being Muslim (thank you Jerry Seinfield!)...

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Why dont you make a blood sacrifice to the heathen gods?

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I wouldn't call the Catholic Church a conservative force. It's anti-death penatly and led some of the biggest protest in the 80s against American tomfoolery in South America. It follows the international understanding of the faith, so it can't really be labelled simply as liberal or conservative. I think in '04 Catholics in America split 54/46 for Kerry.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

To me, the anti-abortion stance the Catholic Church has taken is its most powerful as far as politics is concerned.

You are right JW but when they become united, the numbers for the Catholics are staggeringly huge...

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

So basically if I can summarize many of the posts thus far:

1) It's OK for Obama to do this because the crazy Republicans are forcing him to do so.

2) It's OK for Obama to do this because he's a "different" kind of Christian than Mike Hukabee, George Bush, John McCain, etc.

I'm just waiting to hear from everyone that was so terrified by the thought of a Christian Mike Hukabee or some other kooky Christian Republican in the Oval Office. You know, those of you that posted 3/4 page diatribes on the evils of Christianity and world leaders praying to silly myths and legends. I'm a little dissapointed that I'm not seeing the same outrage over this.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I hope you are not summarizing my post there. I never said anything like that.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

My take, as a non-American-following-the-progress-intensely-from-newspapers-but-don't-really-know-much is this:

Obama did this, just as Clinton did, to secure votes from the more than average religious voters. I don't believe Obama is that much of a religious guy and if/when he get the president nod the religious remarks being made by him now will probably get shoved down his list of things to do or to take into consideration.

The difference with Huckabee is that this is a man who publicly has said that he doesn't believe in evolution theory and who believes homosexuality to be a sinful lifestyle. His comparison with abortion and the holocaust is something that raised my eyebrows aswell.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

So if you don't really believe what you are saying and doing it for votes that's ok to use religion.

If you actually believe in God and His Word and make some life decisions based on that fact (no matter how distasteful to some) that is wrong.


Hmmmm.....

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

To be honest I don't give a beep if a politician is cristian or Zeus fanboy, I just want to know his stance about death penalty, homosexuals, migration and other sensible issues around human rights.

So, Huckabee....I guess no, thanks

PD: anyways as sceptic nihilist I see the colorful aproach to religion in public of american politicians as another one of your fun comedies...indeed

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Since I consider myself atheist/agnostic my answer would be yes.

I realise the question of religion is different in the US compared to most of Europe (and probably my opinion of it compared to many others). Obama needs the votes of the religous crowd to have a shot at the president election so what can he do? He portays himself in a minor manner as someone who believes in God and christianity but that's it. He may very well be a religious person but in contrast to Huckabee he is not, I believe, someone who would make his decisions and beliefs solely based on the writings of the bible or the words of God.

Obama might be a hyppocrite regarding the religous question, but I would say the end in this case have to justificy the means. It's politics after all, if you aren't lying you're doing it wrong.

Again, I'm from a country where a politicians religious belief is as interesting as his choice of favourite ice-cream. He can believe what he want as long as he makes his decisions based on the values of our current society and not on some 2000ish years old writings. (Yes, I do know that some of our values today are based on the bible and that our lawbook will also be 2000 year old someday, but you'll hopefully understand what I'm trying to say.)

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Im with lobo on this one... its a frickin embarassment to me. Why is likeability, personality, sense of humor... even on the radar for a potential voters??? Its a joke. I swear to Zeus myself Im gonna write myself in!!! Shit, dont you have to be 35? I'll do it next time. Im gonna vote for whoever's on the weed ticket.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

You know what Lobo, I agree with you too.

I'm sick of having to constantly hear about how sporting a president is. Or how he keeps fit, or if he's funny. Huckabee was funny as hell, and I would never, ever want him to be president.

The problem for Obama, and that was an embarrassment, is that a man that he is quoted as saying that he admires and looks up to is also a racial bigot. He quotes directly from some of his speeches in his book, and they're speeches that also contained many racist things...it would have been impossible for Obama to not have realized these things. He then totally destroyed the situation, and flip flopped back and forth on the issue before finally, at long last, abandoning him....

Anyways.

BTW, towards "middle east" guy, ie, Kessler, if you have something to say about my religion, say it to me in person. I'm a wiccan, and proud.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

To me a religious life (not admissions) is something to be considered and has a weight in the totality of things.

I do not discount it completely.

And this is my usual approach Lobo, not my sarcastic one...well a little sarcastic perhaps...:)

Based on what you say I have to say (between me and you) fair enough. You are being honest. :)

My only additional point is that people/countries/continents discount religion all too quickly and a lot of that humanistic perspective is taught in public schools, etc so that some really never get a chance to consider the question in an unbiased and even-handed approach.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Erm, where did you drew that odd conclusion from? :uhm:

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Religion has been a key factor in alot of govermental changes throught the centuries, not just in the United States of America, but all over the world.

Anybody think back to the Middle Ages when the world was run by the Papacy, and they believed so heavily in the church that they launched a massive Crusade to retake the "Holy Land", Upon capture of Jerusalem, believing it would save their souls. The Crusaders devoured the people of Jerusalem, yes, They ate them.

And low and behold, they did it again some years later, and some years after that.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Exactly my point.

For those of you not from the US, you may not be picking up on the message in these ads. Obama isn't simply saying, "Hey, I got to church. I'm a Christian. I have God in my life, etc." The ads are proclaiming a fairly hardcore evangelical message. Look at what he's saying, "I won't be fulfilling God's will unless I go out and do the Lord's work." Even the images are in your face evangelical.

How would you all be reacting if this were George Bush in this ad? Or if George Bush had made the above statement before going to war in Iraq? Oh, that's right, Republicans actually mean this kind of crazy Jesus stuff. Democrats just do it to get votes.

So, in other words, at its best Obama is simply pandering for votes from Christians. At its worst, Obama is lying about his faith and the importance of it in his life.

Exactly the kind of person I want in the White House.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Oh come on. Not all of them. More like a quick nibble really.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Well... ya, isn't that what I said he is doing? He is trying to get votes from the right. I can assure you that McCain will pander to votes on the left. All politicians, on the left and right pander to votes in the center. That is politics.

As for the importance of faith in his life, I have no idea, and I doubt anybody else here knows either.

And, like it or not, you are going to get somebody in the White House who panders for votes, just like every other President you've ever had.

As for wether or not the ad offends you, I get the strong impression you are a dedicated Republican voter. In which case, neither candidate will pander to you, and you should not expect the campaign adds from either candidate to especially impress you. (Although the Republican ads will undoubtedly be more appealing.)

As I said, both candidates will pander to the center voters. They are the undecided voters who decide every election. Look at it this way: About 60% of the population doesn't vote. About 15% always vote Democrat. About 15% always vote Republican. That leaves 10% of the population which decide every election. And THAT is where both parties will direct their campaign.

[I am not sure of my numbers, but that is the gist of it]

As for my politics, I am Canadian, but I am leftist. However, I think McCain would be a better President for my country. Interpret that as you will.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

My worry with obama is that there's no guarantee of any policy. He's inexperienced and vague.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

do i really need to copy paste one single speech to prove you wrong

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Oh, I'll do it for you.


I believe in change. Change will be great for america, because it will install new hope through change. By bringing change, hope will be achieved, and we will be able to change for the better, unlike my oponents who want to change for the worst and destroy hope.

ETC....


I donno why, but I realized something last night. To me, at least, the Obama campaign is a lot like Charlie and Candy Mountain. Vague, undetailed promises of hope and wonder and joyness, followed by getting his kidney stolen. In Obama's case, its vague undetailed promises of change and hope for the better, with all us getting is our wallet stolen.

As for the faith issue, to me its a non-issue. Pandering to religious organizations is as old as politics in the USA. Hell, Clinton did it back in 92, its how he won a good part of the south. One nice thing of being a non-mainstream religion is that I highly doubt politicians are ever going to pander towards me:P

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I find your lack of HOPE! disturbing..

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

The world is dying...*bongos* The world is dying... *bongos* The world is dead. *bongos*

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

You wallet stolen...

I think that's one of the most fun and naive beloved argument of you, cons of World United.

Taxes are not bad, fellows, they keep our societies running, if the governmens are fair and talented your money gets stuff and hapiness for the hungry masses. But I will say something you will not like, It's not your wallet exactly, you get money with your hard work because there is stuff built around: industries, roads, hospitals, harbors, etc, etc, etc.

If you don't like it take your wife by the hair and go to live in a cave dressed with the skin of a bear. You want to be in the mass and playing the bell at the same time, and that's not possible.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

That 'if' is so large we'd need a 'Power of Ten' style documentary to grasp it.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I do agree with you to a point. Society needs taxes. We have to have roads, services, defense, an APPROPRIATE safety net for the downtrodden, etc.

The problem is that politicians have realized that their power comes through the growth of governmental spending. And some have realized that taxation is the best way to control the masses.

Personally, I would welcome a country where the goal of every single elected official is to see that government does NOT GROW on their watch. The US has proven that governmental tax receipts actually increase as tax rates are decreased - the problem arises when government then spends that revenue and continually wants more.

This is my primary beef with Bush. He's has grown government more than any President in US history.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I'm not against government spending, I'm just in favor of smart government spending.

Taxes are necessary, yes, but they should be as little as possible.

Remember a few years ago, in the 2000 election, when all the talk was about how to spend the budget surplus? Guys, when a government has a surplus, that means taxes are too high and it's time to lower them. Governments don't exist to make a profit...

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

As far as Obama's experience, stands, vagueness I heard one politcocom put it this way - purposeful measured vagueness that can be molded to suit individual needs.

Why do you think he has so many wealthy supporters, particularly George Sorcerous?

I guess it gives a new meaning to investing in America....

As far as taxes/spending let's do a balanced budget designed to pay off the national debt with no new taxes and a meaningful look at current spending levels.

One way to do this is to cut off all foreign support other than current commitments with Allies. In this I am very serious.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Here's something else to worry about with Barack Obama...

Imagine the outcry if McCain had a neo-Nazi band opening for his campaign rallies. And yet it's nothing special for Obama to have a band open for him which espouses Soviet communism, an ideology which killed as many if not more people than Nazism.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Becuase Communism is cool among you damned kids nowadays

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Go read about them, they're name is taken from 1800's Russian stuff. It's a big leap from the Soviet Union national anthem to supporting the killing of civilians by Soviet Communism. I like the sound of the Italian National Anthem, but I don't support wine,soccer,cheese, or water as streets.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Didn't you just make a thread about Manchester United?