Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

They reached really far, and called places with fancy names. And they were not "your" tribes and I have heard they neither received the wasps with fireworks (wise people the braves of the steppes)

The main germs that killed indians were called...8 mm and .22 (so yes, my diagnostic is..."America, Fuck yeah"). There was not a "Final Solution" in Latin America, in North America yes, and if you still believe in fairy tales I'm sorry for you.

Slavery ended in Spain territory, de facto, in 1766
Legally in 1837
The oligarchies of Cuba and Puerto Rico rejected the abolition and threatened to join USA...ironic, isn't it?

Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery in 1865
Racial segregation was definitely abolished in 1968

If you don't mind I withdraw from this senseless chat with you, because I feel again another Galileo Galilei Déjà vu....awwwl

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Waaaay off homie. The Emanipation Proclimation was made in 1863, and it only freed slaves in Confederate states. The 13th admendment was passed by congress and out lawed slavery in 1865. The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964.

Also, seriously, who taught you to be an anarchist? First you say the media should have an agenda and then you defend Spanish Cololinization of the New World?

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I am not defending the spanish colonization, puppet, I am talking about historical facts, and you exterminated your indians and hated them so much that you would rather to marry with a stone than with an indian, well, the ancient spaniards didn't exterminated them and made sex with their indian mommas non stop. Yeah, they were bearded, smelly, violent zealots, but they wanted more christian souls...alive ones...your wild west ancesstors just wanted space and the legitime owners of the space were an annoyance for them and were slaughtered. And I can just laugh, point fingers at you and nod if you don't admit it.

Got it?, nice, get back to your banjo lessons, you are being sloppy with those chords'n'riffs

Racial segregation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: By 1968 all forms of segregation had been declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

There were exceptions. John Rolfe did marry Pocahontas and fathered her kids.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

True, my bad

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Seriously Lobo, bomb a McDonalds, punch out a guy in a Che shirt. I wanna see some AnarKy man.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Wich is your local McDonalds?, I'm gonna raid it with a marshmallows bomb.
Happy?

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I am probably the only person that never got into this, but I personally couldn't give a crap about someone being labeled Left, Liberal, Conservative, Right, etc. (I honestly don't know the difference).

Call it ignorance, but how can you define opinions and stuff like that?

I hate that kind of talk! If someone has a bad idea or is a nutcase with their propaganda, ignore them or put them in the nuthouse!

I have no idea where I fall on that absurd scale; I would imagine I would be a little of everything. :uhoh:

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Oh I know what's up lol, I actually payed attention.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

It's easy, Wilhelm

Lefties want the progress of human being and fight against injustice and opression: Liberté, égalité, fraternité

Liberals is the name that american far right peeps use to call their right wing Party -----> the democratic Party

Conservatives want the status quo, the money in the hands of the same people as always, the elites. If you fall out of the train screw you

Right are like conservatives + racism, xenophoby, hate against the diference, etc

/runs to the atomic shelter

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Lobo, what point are you trying to make here? Was Spanish Colonization somehow "kinder" to its indigenous people because the Spaniards romanced their ways into the hearts of the woman? The Indian Nations in North America are still around. Not exterminated like you said. But whatever happened to those Inca? and Aztecs? Im sure all the ladies hearts melted at your charming grandfathers...

This account is from Bartolome de Las Casas. He was a missionary and conquistador. He took part in the conquest of Cuba. These accounts happened after this and one has to believe he was very troubled by what he witnessed. There is no doubt about it; the Spanish were cruel in the conquest for gold and land. Events like these listed below did nothing to help relations between the vastly different cultures. Instead it was a major reason why the Taino and Arawak peoples became extinct.

The Spaniards with their horses, their spears and lances, began to commit murders and other strange cruelties. They entered into towns and villages, sparing neither children nor old men and women. They ripped their bellies and cut them to pieces as if they had been slaughtering lambs in a field. They made bets with each other over who could thrust a sword into the middle of a man or who could cut off his head with one stroke. They took little ones by their heels and crushed their heads against the cliffs. Others they threw into the rivers laughing and mocking them as they tumbled into the water. They put everyone they met to the edge of the sword.
One time I saw four or five important native nobles roasted and broiled upon makeshift grills. The cried out pitifully. This thing troubled our Captain that he could not sleep. He commanded that they be strangled. The Sergeant (I know him and his friends from Seville) would not strangle them but put bullets into their mouths instead.
I have seen all these things and others infinite. Most tried to flee. They tried to hide in the mountains. They tried to flee from these men. Men who were empty of all pity, behaving like savage beasts. They are nothing more than slaughterers and enemies of mankind. These evil men had even taught their hounds, fierce dogs, to tear natives to pieces at first sight.
AND, when, although rare, the Indians put to death some Spaniards upon good right and law of justice; the Spaniards made an agreement that for every one Spaniard killed they had to slay one hundred Indians.
One time the Indians came to meet us and receive us with food and good cheer! Instead, the devil, which had put himself in the Spaniards, put them all to the edge of the sword in my presence, without any cause whatsoever, more than three thousand souls. I saw there such great cruelties, that never any man living either have or shall see the lik
One time the Indians came to meet us and receive us with food and good cheer! Instead, the devil, which had put himself in the Spaniards, put them all to the edge of the sword in my presence, without any cause whatsoever, more than three thousand souls. I saw there such great cruelties, that never any man living either have or shall see the like.


Spain... Fuck Yeah!

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Yes, that's my point, it was "kinder", the aztecs, incas, etc were finished as polithical powers but they mixed with the colonizators and are the ancesstors of the actual Latin americans, the north american indians were killed (not totally, obviously), ethnically cleanesed out of their territories and segregated. Is it so hard to understand?

Yeah, I know perfectly the Bartolome de Las Casas report and I fully agree, the conquest was violent like all the colonizations, but its goal was never to exterminate the natives to get space for european settlers. Take it or leave, it's an historical fact. They went with the sword and the cross, yeah, but in North America there was only winchester "polithic", nothing more.

Whatever, I'm glad they will ruin your bank accounts with their tahur tactics in the Indian casino, Manitou's revenge!!!

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Yeah, it was just to work the naives to death mining gold for the Spanish upper class. Waaay better.


PS, how are the Arawaks doing on Hispanola, bud?

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I cant believe what Im reading!!! Goodnight everyone, Lobo, put down the Mezcal... that shit does weird stuff!!!!

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

You guys are really comic, John Wayne's fanboys that deny the North American indian genocide trying to give moral lessons to people around...amazing

Jau, Big Boss goes to bed to make big medicine with little angels, pale faces make very bad medicine

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Honestly, how does this relate to Barack Obama?

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

We are not denying anything Lobo, that's what so infurating. I gurentee you every American here would call how the natives were treated despicable.

Listen, we think our country is A Number One or somewhere close, but that doesn't mean we endorse what we did or try to defend it with "Yeah, but what you did is worse". I mean, I have no clue why you're taking the 'Spanish colonization was kinder' route. It goes against pretty much everything I know about your political views.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Lol I love this thread...

I thought that "Liberal" and "Conservative" were relative. Depending on the political power in control, liberals want change to something different, conservatives want to preserve what has been working so far. Thus, in 1776, liberals wanted to break away from the Monarchy of England and establish a democracy, and conservatives wanted to stick with England, but by now the terms have flipflopped and the former views of the liberal are now considered conservative as a new breed of liberals push for a more socialist government (heh, or something similar to England's).

It's just human nature to try to kick the old power out and take over to rule in your way, which is of course much better =p.

I for one opt for less big government and more power to regional governments (and of course the people). Like I said before, over half the states in the US have a larger population than the entire country at it's inception.

Oh and yes, believe me, everyone in America is very much aware of how the Indians were treated. I have a great grandma who, from my mom's accounts, used to hate her own grandkids because they had "black blood" from an Indian line. Ironically, she had quite a bit of Indian blood herself :) and so do I now. But thats just our ancestry! full of oddities and quirks. Don't hold us accountable for them.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I think that Lobo thinks we agree with that comment that Megaraptor(?) made... I dont think you'll find many people that would agree with him (mega). We know that alot died from the blankets but we also know it to be intentional most of the time.

This notion that somehow Spains hands are cleaner is laughable!!!

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Well, that's a new one - I don't think I've ever seen anyone seriously try to minimize the unsurpassed cruelty and institutionalized viciousness of the 16th- and 17th-century Spanish conquistadors in the New World by comparing them positively to Anglo-Dutch colonization of North America circa 1600-1875. Jesus, Lobe, can you never just let it go?

BTW, just when do you sleep? By my calculation it's sometime between 08:00-12:00 your time. Maybe you're just cranky and need a nap? ;)

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Dont forget the comment about Spain's benevolence having abolished slavery a few years earlier than the US!!!!

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Argh!

This thread, should I be worried?

*faints*

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Yes you should!!
I swear... it took me about 10 minutes longer to fall asleep last night!!!

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Bush is behind 9/11

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

All Europeans are Communists out to steal our precious, Freedom loving bodily fluids.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Johnwalker, get me some grain alcohol and rain water from my fridge....

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

It's truly comical to only visit this thread once-a-day and see how the discussion changes.

I'd recommend it to anyone.

BTW, Obama won! Unfortunatley someone forgot to tell Hillary.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

You should track everyone that posted here for future reference and concern... :)

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

The only reason I stay out of most of the debate is exactly that. School work prevents me from being able to keep track of a debate that goes a page every 5 minutes it seems, and a good 3-4 topics on each page....

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

That's the point of the issue, "unsurpassed" is a wrong adjective, the...few smelly, bearded, violent, dressed with shiny helmets and shields, over strange mitic animals called horses, fanatic...conquerors didn't have as goal the extermination of a race to get space for them. Call them vicious (love that word), that's nice, all Empires were vicious in their expansions, all conquered and destroyed, raped and burned, transmited flu and pox, gonorrhea and sifilis, and expanded with a sword in a hand and the cross in the other, but the North America colonization was really unsurpassed, that one was, there a genocide happened and I just can laugh how you try to minimize that shameful fact comparing it with the Spanish America colonization.

The North America indians had just two options: get the fuck out of their lands and be exiled to desertic ghettos full of junk or die. And don't dare to mix your horrible untermensch gens with our perfect white DNA, you silly!

The Latin America indians had two diferent opions: to accept the only God and become subjects of Her Gracious Majesty or die. And now let's make catholic kids!

Tell me there is no diference.

You wasps are so comic.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

We aren't minimizing it :) We agree that it was a horrible thing too. But its daft of you to say that it was any worse then what you guys did.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

I did nothing, you neither...well, maybe JumJum and Genl'Knight did...I heard there are daguerrotipes of them taken back then at Tucson.

It's the problem of your, dears, you see life in black and white, Stalin was so evil like Hitler, spaniards were so evil like the Mayflower descendants and so on. Others we love the greys.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Is it possible to place a thread in an ignore list? I cant take this anymore, Lobo, youve truly lost your marbles man...

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Never, gringo pendejo!

Long Life to Cabeza de Vaca, Daniel Boone burn in Hell

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

No me mata :(

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Just don't go on here. Where's your self-control?

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

LOL! I cant look away from train wrecks!

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Yeah, but you're not sitting in the train.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

That is total bull crap...you have swallowed modern leftist propaganda that paints some picture of pre-Columbian America as a happy place full of joy and butterflies where Indians lived in bliss and harmony until the evil Puritans came and killed them all.

Except that religious settlers like the Puritans, Quakers and Pilgrims had some of the best relations with the natives of any new world colonists.

The Indians were not some monolithic entity...there were many many tribes and they didn't all get along. Which is why, if you look at the history of the Indian wars, you'll see that many Indian tribes sided with the Europeans against their rival tribes.

I'll bet you've never studied any of the Indian wars of North America. In fact, without looking it up, can you name a single battle of the Indian wars besides Custer at Little Big Horn?

There was no overarching campaign of genocide. Yes, forced removals were committed in some areas, and brutal massacres were committed by BOTH SIDES in many places. Ever heard of the Whitman Mission for example?

For example, the tribe that once lived in my area, the Catawbas, were on very good terms with the European setters of the area and made an alliance against rival tribes. They fought on the settler's side against other tribes who wanted to drive the Europeans into the sea.

If no one in the USA intermarried with native Americans, why do I know so many people who are part Native? Why is it almost impossible to find a full-blooded Native American outside of reservations?

Besides, you're acting like Spain's main goal in colonizing Latin America wasn't gold, fame and fortune, which it was...

The only Indians Daniel Boone killed were the ones fighting on the side of the British during the war of 1812...

The amount of people massacred in the Indian Wars was SMALL compared to other genocides (Holocaust, Armenian Genocide, Khmer Rouge etc)...

Check this book out...

From Wiki, about the book:

In the book The Wild Frontier: Atrocities during the American-Indian War from Jamestown Colony to Wounded Knee, amateur historian William M. Osborn sought to tally every recorded atrocity in the area that would eventually become the continental United States, from early contact (1511) to the closing of the frontier (1890), and determined that 9,156 people died from atrocities perpetrated by Native Americans, and 7,193 people died from atrocities perpetrated by Europeans. Osborn defines an atrocity as the murder, torture, or mutilation of civilians, the wounded, and prisoners.

Here's something else for you:

Indian Massacres

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Wait a minute I have not entered the Indian fray so do not take my nick in vain...:)

But since you asked...

The early American settlers and mountain men (circa 1800 give and take) had no problems with Indian brides. Truth be know I doubt any white man ever gave a pass to some Indian loving unless she was butt ugly.

It became early on a struggle for land at which the reservation system became adopted. Some Indian tribes benefited (Oklahoma oil) but most did not.

The crap really hit the fan when gold was discovered and ultimately lead to the ugliness surrounding Little Big Horn.

There evolved a racist element to the Indian situation but you cannot frame the whole country as guilty. As always there are elements both ways.

Basically though, the Spaniards were driven by greed for gold from Columbus on and it is easy to use religion to cover it up but greed is greed.

While Americans did rape and pillage, I do not recall the degree of debauchery and bestilality as ascribed to the Spaniards.

To translate Lobo, it appears your boys were worse than than my boys and basically for the same sin, just covering it up in different ways.

As far as slavery in the 19th century, the US was in the middle of all the civilized nations at the time in repealling the notion of slavery. I'm sure it took just as long before the ceasing of slavery actually took in all the countries involved as it did in the US so it is not fair to point that finger.

Of course, we know and have been told that only Bush is the hated one on this continent...

Let me ask this question if I may:

If a person is prejudiced does he really know it?

It is not as deep as the age old riddle of if a husband is alone in the woods is he still wrong but I thought I would throw it out there...

**Added for Megaraptor***

I've heard it said most Indians actually killed each other.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

What the fuck have Indians got to do with Barack Obama.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

He has some Indian blood?

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Secret tribal leader.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

THIS IS FH OFF TOPIC!

http://www.planet.nl/upload_mm/6/8/5...warnerbros.jpg

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

America, Fuck Yeah!, nothing more to say about the issue

And thanks for the big laughs with that review of the Conquest of Wild West, I really needed it...the laughs I mean, God knows I don't need biased, laughable, fake, manipulating, ultrapatriotic, condoning bullcrap reviews, at this moment of the match called live. Megaraptor and Knight, you are the best, brilliant, highest comedic value evar in these boards so proned to comedy.

You can go back to the "let's bash the evil Obama" ordeal

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Thank you very much! :)

I exist only as light to counter the darkness that I find in the earth...

For Moose's benefit - Hillary won't run with Obama.

Who is going to win? I really don't know and if we (the USA) needs another Jimmy Carter fiasco to bring sanity (that's an oxymoron isn't it :rolleyes:) back to the White House so be it...

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Ok Knight, I'll remember that, we'll see in the next couple of weeks. I hope to god you're wrong just so I can say, look hes wrong.

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

Im a Brazilian, so my vote go for BARACK OBAMA for save the world.


thanks :D

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

What no one here yet knows--except me--is that the next POTUS won't be McCain, nor will it be Obama. Instead, it will be LIBertarian Bob Barr:


:rofl:

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?
 

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Obama pledges support for Israel

:banghead: