4369200

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?

June 3rd, 2008 09:59 PM

Lobo, what point are you trying to make here? Was Spanish Colonization somehow "kinder" to its indigenous people because the Spaniards romanced their ways into the hearts of the woman? The Indian Nations in North America are still around. Not exterminated like you said. But whatever happened to those Inca? and Aztecs? Im sure all the ladies hearts melted at your charming grandfathers...

This account is from Bartolome de Las Casas. He was a missionary and conquistador. He took part in the conquest of Cuba. These accounts happened after this and one has to believe he was very troubled by what he witnessed. There is no doubt about it; the Spanish were cruel in the conquest for gold and land. Events like these listed below did nothing to help relations between the vastly different cultures. Instead it was a major reason why the Taino and Arawak peoples became extinct.

The Spaniards with their horses, their spears and lances, began to commit murders and other strange cruelties. They entered into towns and villages, sparing neither children nor old men and women. They ripped their bellies and cut them to pieces as if they had been slaughtering lambs in a field. They made bets with each other over who could thrust a sword into the middle of a man or who could cut off his head with one stroke. They took little ones by their heels and crushed their heads against the cliffs. Others they threw into the rivers laughing and mocking them as they tumbled into the water. They put everyone they met to the edge of the sword.
One time I saw four or five important native nobles roasted and broiled upon makeshift grills. The cried out pitifully. This thing troubled our Captain that he could not sleep. He commanded that they be strangled. The Sergeant (I know him and his friends from Seville) would not strangle them but put bullets into their mouths instead.
I have seen all these things and others infinite. Most tried to flee. They tried to hide in the mountains. They tried to flee from these men. Men who were empty of all pity, behaving like savage beasts. They are nothing more than slaughterers and enemies of mankind. These evil men had even taught their hounds, fierce dogs, to tear natives to pieces at first sight.
AND, when, although rare, the Indians put to death some Spaniards upon good right and law of justice; the Spaniards made an agreement that for every one Spaniard killed they had to slay one hundred Indians.
One time the Indians came to meet us and receive us with food and good cheer! Instead, the devil, which had put himself in the Spaniards, put them all to the edge of the sword in my presence, without any cause whatsoever, more than three thousand souls. I saw there such great cruelties, that never any man living either have or shall see the lik
One time the Indians came to meet us and receive us with food and good cheer! Instead, the devil, which had put himself in the Spaniards, put them all to the edge of the sword in my presence, without any cause whatsoever, more than three thousand souls. I saw there such great cruelties, that never any man living either have or shall see the like.


Spain... Fuck Yeah!

4369203

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?

June 3rd, 2008 10:08 PM

Yes, that's my point, it was "kinder", the aztecs, incas, etc were finished as polithical powers but they mixed with the colonizators and are the ancesstors of the actual Latin americans, the north american indians were killed (not totally, obviously), ethnically cleanesed out of their territories and segregated. Is it so hard to understand?

Yeah, I know perfectly the Bartolome de Las Casas report and I fully agree, the conquest was violent like all the colonizations, but its goal was never to exterminate the natives to get space for european settlers. Take it or leave, it's an historical fact. They went with the sword and the cross, yeah, but in North America there was only winchester "polithic", nothing more.

Whatever, I'm glad they will ruin your bank accounts with their tahur tactics in the Indian casino, Manitou's revenge!!!

4369210

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?

June 3rd, 2008 10:15 PM

Yeah, it was just to work the naives to death mining gold for the Spanish upper class. Waaay better.


PS, how are the Arawaks doing on Hispanola, bud?

4369220

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?

June 3rd, 2008 10:22 PM

I cant believe what Im reading!!! Goodnight everyone, Lobo, put down the Mezcal... that shit does weird stuff!!!!

4369221

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?

June 3rd, 2008 10:23 PM

You guys are really comic, John Wayne's fanboys that deny the North American indian genocide trying to give moral lessons to people around...amazing

Jau, Big Boss goes to bed to make big medicine with little angels, pale faces make very bad medicine

4369223

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?

June 3rd, 2008 10:27 PM

Honestly, how does this relate to Barack Obama?

4369229

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?

June 3rd, 2008 10:39 PM

We are not denying anything Lobo, that's what so infurating. I gurentee you every American here would call how the natives were treated despicable.

Listen, we think our country is A Number One or somewhere close, but that doesn't mean we endorse what we did or try to defend it with "Yeah, but what you did is worse". I mean, I have no clue why you're taking the 'Spanish colonization was kinder' route. It goes against pretty much everything I know about your political views.

4369245

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?

June 3rd, 2008 10:57 PM

Lol I love this thread...

I thought that "Liberal" and "Conservative" were relative. Depending on the political power in control, liberals want change to something different, conservatives want to preserve what has been working so far. Thus, in 1776, liberals wanted to break away from the Monarchy of England and establish a democracy, and conservatives wanted to stick with England, but by now the terms have flipflopped and the former views of the liberal are now considered conservative as a new breed of liberals push for a more socialist government (heh, or something similar to England's).

It's just human nature to try to kick the old power out and take over to rule in your way, which is of course much better .

I for one opt for less big government and more power to regional governments (and of course the people). Like I said before, over half the states in the US have a larger population than the entire country at it's inception.

Oh and yes, believe me, everyone in America is very much aware of how the Indians were treated. I have a great grandma who, from my mom's accounts, used to hate her own grandkids because they had "black blood" from an Indian line. Ironically, she had quite a bit of Indian blood herself and so do I now. But thats just our ancestry! full of oddities and quirks. Don't hold us accountable for them.

4369466

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?

June 4th, 2008 06:27 AM

I think that Lobo thinks we agree with that comment that Megaraptor(?) made... I dont think you'll find many people that would agree with him (mega). We know that alot died from the blankets but we also know it to be intentional most of the time.

This notion that somehow Spains hands are cleaner is laughable!!!

4369473

Re: Barack Obama, should I be worried?

June 4th, 2008 06:42 AM

Well, that's a new one - I don't think I've ever seen anyone seriously try to minimize the unsurpassed cruelty and institutionalized viciousness of the 16th- and 17th-century Spanish conquistadors in the New World by comparing them positively to Anglo-Dutch colonization of North America circa 1600-1875. Jesus, Lobe, can you never just let it go?

BTW, just when do you sleep? By my calculation it's sometime between 08:00-12:00 your time. Maybe you're just cranky and need a nap?