3872431

Top 10 Military Rifles of All Time

August 21st, 2007 01:45 PM

I'd be interested in what people think of this:

Guns - Top Ten (10) Military Rifles of All Time w. Pics. | Guns Lot

3872436

August 21st, 2007 01:47 PM

I saw this quite sometime ago, was interesting. There is a video on YouTube of this. The AK-47's a beast, who cares if you can't hit shit.

I lied:YouTube - TOP 10:Combat Rifles - AK 47 (NO.1)
This video is slightly different.

3872455

August 21st, 2007 01:57 PM

The Springfield has a ROF of 10 rounds per minute? M16s are fully auto? Weren't only the original and the M16A3 fully auto? :\

Great list Fuzzy, though I think the M16 and AK47 should both be #1 in a tie

3872521

August 21st, 2007 02:23 PM

Hell yeah, a belgian on #3.
I'll read it more thorougly tomorrow, after i get some sleap...

3872540

August 21st, 2007 02:35 PM

I think one of the weaknesses of this list is that it does not account for a lot of innovations; any "top 10" list will have to make compromises. For example, I have two Swiss rifles; a 1908 long rifle and a Karabiner 1931; they have a straight-pull with a fantastically-ingenious-yet-robust action. Superbly made, and great fun to fire.

What about older rifles like the original (US Civil War) Springfield rifle? The Dreyse needle gun? The Krag-Jorgensen (pretty revolutionary design) or Mauser Gewehr 98? The Winchester repeater? Just for sheer volume, the Mosin-Nagant (as an overall class) should be in there, IMHO. Likewise, the Kentucky Long Rifle (it's not a brand, rather a type of gun) definitely belongs in there -- it was a fairly big deal in winning the US war of independence.

How about non-rifle long weapons, like the Brown Bess / Long Land Pattern musket? That was the mainstay of the British army for more than a century.

Sniper rifles -- the Dragunov SVD and M82 Barrett are pretty amazing pieces of work; I would love a Dragunov sometime. As far as other revolutionary designs go, how about the FG42 or the SVT? The SKS? The latter was/is a pretty amazing workhorse of Warsaw Pact and allied forces for decades.

Anyway, I think the criteria are kind of insufficient -- they should include

- how revolutionary or influential for other designs was the rifle
- how widely was it used / how many were produced
- how long was it used for
- how good was the design
- was it used in any high-profile actions

3872542

August 21st, 2007 02:37 PM

something to please some people ego ?

the lebel should be in to have open the way to modern rifle with it smokeless ammo

3872588

August 21st, 2007 02:58 PM

I think your all fools for trying to sum up that much history and innovation in a list of 10

3872919

August 21st, 2007 04:58 PM

i saw this show on the military channel some time ago and it was really interesting. but the AK-47 is rightfully in 1st place on this list.

3872956

August 21st, 2007 05:11 PM

Hell yeah, a belgian on #3.

hehhehee

argentina buys yours FAL assault rifle NICE WEAPON BELGIANS :P

3873467

August 21st, 2007 10:21 PM

I would include the Sturmgewehr 44 only because it created the class of "assault rifle". The rifle itself had indifferent actual performance, and the numbers produced were too little, too late to have any effect on the war. Nor was it reliable. Not a successful weapon.

I would find a place for the Brown Bess musket (Short Land Service Musket). While a smoothbore musket and thus technically not a "rifle", the fact that it was in service from 1722 to 1838 makes it the B-52 of its day.(DRAT! Now I see Fuzzy beat me to it - as usual.)

Also the US Civil War-era Sharps Rifle/Carbine belongs, and the similar Spencer Rifle too. It started the long process of changing the generals' minds about the value of small units vs. large formations of troops. "Load it on Sunday and shoot all week."

The Maritni Henry. While the breech-loader broke no new ground, it served for 40 years as the weapon of the British Empire in dozens of wars, big and little. Probably responsible for the death of more third-world citizen-soldiers than any other instrumentality.

Don't think I can go along with the M-14 even though I love it and think there is no sexier looking auto rifle. It was not in use before 1959 and there were none left in field use by any regular infantry or Marine units by 1968. It just wasn't successful.

I would go for the BAR in place of the M-14 since it was in use far longer. If I could I would pair it with the Bren (if the Bren had semi capability - did it?). They were both very successful "rifles" in long use as squad-support weapons, although I would choose the BAR as less awkward in its configuration.

Might have to find a place for the Mosin Nagant - it was used a long time in the Eastern Bloc. Have to have at least one rifle with that kinky needle bayonet.

The SKS has been around almost forever it seems. If you consider it a separate weapon from the AK, it may have been produced almost as much. Also the absolutely cheapest contemporary military rifle. Several years ago my father thought SKSs at $100 a pop would make wonderful Christmas presents for his four sons - all four grown-married-with-children-professional sons. Hey, we went ahead and got a few thousand rounds of military 7.62 x 39mm and some 30-round mags - Ivan and Jose better not come parachuting into our high school. GO WOLVERINES!

Otherwise, I think I would combine the 1903 Springfield and the SMLE as similar weapons. The Springfield was simple, tough and accurate, and used the superior 30-'06 cartridge. The Enfield had "too many parts", but had a quick bolt action, and that wonderful life-saving 10-round magazine.

But if I combined the Springfield and SMLE I might have to include the Mauser K98k as well, and the Mauser definitely deserves a place all to itself. The K98 was the AK-47 of its day, arming hundreds of armies around the world for seven decades. There are doubtless thousands still in use all over the globe. An argument can be made that the Gewehr98 and K98 are essentially the same rifle, which would make it the world's champion rifle as far as length of service and numbers produced.

Couldn't go with FuzzyBunny's Krag-Jorgensen because of reliability and breakdown problems on active service. But the K-J Carbine did look so cool when in Lee Marvin's legendary-Mountie hands it in Death Hunt.

The Steyer AUG? Why? Other than it be stylin' so fine?

A weapon much like the Steyer AUG is the SA-80. Unlike the Steyer, the SA-80 has actually had extended service in war. The fact that it is not on anybody's list is telling, I think.