Global Warming.

[stylie]

Or the new buzzword "Climate Change". Ive been on the fence with this for a long time. In fact I still am. Ive never been a "sky is falling" type of guy and conversely I dont dismiss this as just alarmist behavior. We can project all we want, the weather is beyond us. I will state for the record though that we all need to address our pollutions... wastefulness... and environmental policies. To nutshell this, "I dont know". Maybe its warming, maybe not. But we are too wasteful and we remove too many forests, too much development IMHO. Has anyone read about this? Link. Alot of people havent. Its been kind of funny that most media will not discuss all sides of issues. So you all know, I love aquariums. I have a small salt water that require alot of balance. I know what effects closed systems and how quickly they can crash and I realize we live in a giant aquarium I like beautiful places and nature. I do not like watching my old stomping grounds fall prey to parking lots and short term retail. I think that is more of a problem then our emissions.

Anyways, are we warming? Is that a bad thing? Do you expect a habitable place to remain hospitable? Is this current trend caused by us? Discuss. and talk about the link I posted as well.

[[8th] Wise]

Well, put me in the Global Warming skeptic column. In a universe as vast and unknown as the one we live in, who are we to say what is the correct temperature of the Earth? After all, the planet has gone through climate changes before (there is even evidence Antarctica used to possess tropical and mild climates, eons ago). No doubt there is real pollution out there, but not so sure carbon emissions are as harmful as some claim (indeed, water vapor is a more prevalent greenhouse gas). The planet Mars has also shown signs of warming:

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

Perhaps some of the warming we experience is due to solar activity? More cynically, I see certain groups and individuals doing much of what they accuse the United States government of doing, profiteering off of people's fears. Personally, I believe any warming (or cooling) we experience as a planet is cyclical.

[Gen'l Knight]

I don't think global warming as defined to us by the media exists.

That link is interesting and I wonder if it will hit the main stream news.

But me, with all my Conservative indoctrination, says no. As long as there is an illusion of something being wrong that is all that is required.

The mantra is industrialists are self-serving, the general population is too stupid to under these major issues and needs government guidance, we must rein in North America/Europe to stop this but lets forget China, the current government adminstration doesn't want to help blah blah blah.

As far as global warming, the best thing I heard is that the planets on each side of us are experiencing some warming as well.

*** edit *** Thanks Kiril!

Ice is actually GROWING on the ice caps, not melting.

There are actually more trees now in North America than ever because many have been planted in areas where there were no trees before.

I believe that there can be local pockets of "warming" due to concrete streets and buildings existing where there was just farm or forest before.

My two centavos on an interesting topic...

[It's Happy Fun Ball!]

I don't usually read newsweek, but there was an interesting article in it this week about the 'anti-global warming campaign.' Climatologists who actually study climate change are almost in complete agreement that global warming is real. The science is not really in doubt.

Global-Warming Deniers: A Well-Funded Machine - Newsweek Technology - MSNBC.com

[Ronin Pedroshin]

One thing I'm sure of is that the weather this year has gone nuts. Here, even in Summer, when it was usually sunny and hot everyday, days have been alternating with very hot and clear sky days with very cloudy, mild cold and sometimes rain! On the contrary, the Winter was almost sunny everyday! The weather has gone so unpredictable! And also there have been a lot of floods in the UK I've heard, as well has many forest fires in Eastern European countries.

[jumjum]

No doubt we're warming. But my view is for the most part it's a natural cycle. It's happened countless times, the vast majority long before man appeared.

Also, remember GIGO. When your data are flawed, your solution is unreliable. The latest is the NASA glitch in using incorrect temp figures in its calculations so that 1998 (falsely) appeared to be the hottest year on record. Ooops, wrong, as figured out by a Canadian (link), so take a bow, Canucks. So now the hottest year on record is 1934, not 1998. How can that be? (I don't think George Bush was alive to destroy the earth then.)

Here's a thought: "on record". Depending on who you talk to, the "record" from which we take averages and facts about hot years, etc., can start around 1885 or 1900. But has any adjustment been made in those records to reflect that "nationwide" temp recordings in 1900 almost certainly didn't include the hottest areas of the county - Arizona, Utah, Nevada and New Mexico? Or that records for those territories would have been very limited? And who knows about calibration and accuracy, time of day, location, etc.

The point is that if those blast furnaces are left out or minimized in the mix, the early-record temp averages will appear lower than they were. Meaning that it could incorrectly appear "we" (meaning modern America) have an unprecedented heat rise. Maybe, maybe not.

Now the climatologists are smart guys, and they surely have recognized that early records are limited in their geographic area, and thus some adjustment need be made to ensure an accurate "yearly average". But the guys at NASA who screwed up the 1998 temp were pretty smart too, no?

And finally, I recognize the feeling when someone wants to stampede me into a certain decision based not on calm reasoning but panic. There's a lot of that going on now. It is incredibly arrogant for someone to say the evidence is conclusive - it's just not. My feeling is the stronger the push in a certain direction - the less evidence for it there exists. Far too much of the climate debate is being fueled (heh - like that?) by political and ideological considerations. Why does it matter? Because when objectivity is lost, when a researcher has an emotional or intellectual investment in a particular result, bad science is almost always guaranteed. I particularly resent the little trick of using the term "scientist", as in "134,000,000 scientists agree man has turned the Earth into Satan's fireplace"; the implication being that the scientists referred to are "climatologists" - and they're not. Hell, a veterinarian is a "scientist", and his ideas about climate have the same scientific validity as mine - zilch.

Finally, past similar "scientific" public policy campaigns have been waged, and by some of the same kind of folks pushing panic now. There was fluoride and Alar ( I think Meryl Streep cried for a Congressional hearing audience), but the biggest was DDT. Untold millions of persons (in Africa and Asia, so they're out of sight of the activists) have died becasue DDT was pushed off the market in less about five years after Rachel Carson played coy with facts in The Silent Spring.

That being said - yep, it's hotter. I have to think about 30 years to remember this many 100+ days in a row. But unless someone can explain the countless previous such climate changes before man's appearance, I can't accept that the change is primarily caused by human activity.

And yet. There are actual floating islands of man-made garbage in the Pacific Ocean, miles from nowhere. And yes, the Brazilian rain forest is just being chewed up several miles a day.


What to do? The big, big, big solution? Eliminate the vast majority of man-made pollution, eliminate virtually any human climate footprint, have vast energy reserves? Nuke power - plain and simple. Hemp clothes sure won't do it, any more than paying $ to some unaccountable NGO for some fiction called "carbon credits".

Dang it's hot.

[Real-BadSeed]

The weather world wide is definately changing, but whether its caused by man or some cyclical event, no one knows for sure, yet.... However it certainly appears to me that its mans activities that are behind it.

A recent study of Ice Cores showed that man has left a layer of soot on the surface of the Ice caps both north and south. Starting in the 1800's, with the highiest concentrations in the last half of the 20th century. This layer of soot is causing the ice caps to absorb heat and may infact be the cause of the excellerated melting. (The darker surface doesnt reflect the sun as much, and causes heat absorbtion)

That said, i believe something is going on, the weather has definately changed. And more importantly its changing in areas that havent seen change in 1000's of years. Our winters are way warmer than when i was a kid. I was able to go sledding as a kid every year, snow was a given. Now we dont get any snow at all, NONE, not even in the mountains hardly. Something like this in Canada is like getting snow in bermuda.

So i believe global warming is real, and the next ten years will tell the tale.

[Lupin]

Here's a link to a very well made video that shows that global warming is nothing but a natural cycle and it has been going on for millions of years.

The Great Global Warming Swindle

[Real-BadSeed]

Your video doesnt explain why our mountains got no snow at all the last 5 years, something that hasnt happened since before the last Ice age. Its easy to dismiss when you dont live in these areas of drastic change and see with your eyes whats happening.

The big threat that everyone doesnt realise is, that when the ice and snow are gone for good from our mountains, so will the rivers and streams be gone (run-off).. Thus all our forests and such will start to die. They already are... Also our fresh water will be gone.

I live in one of these areas and im seeing it with my own eyes...

edit: I think its quite significant that we are seeing changes world wide and not just locally in certain areas. Of coarse certain areas are seeing dramatic changes, but everywhere is experiencing some change. It also explains the much more violent weather in recent years around the world.

[Pasquill]

10.000 years is nothing when it comes to the sun and its cycles and at the moment the sunspot activity is more than we have observed in recent years. If you look back over the past 1000 years you will see the temp wax and wane slightly which is enough to change areas for generations. Plus with the ice caps on mars melting as well, something is going down with the sun because I cannot imaging a solar power Mars rover is churning out tons and tons of Co2 but don't get me wrong we need to cut down on our waste for other reasons.

Someone mentioned Antarctica use to have a tropical rain forest, but that was due to its locations at the time and with the shifting tectonic plates, has ended up way down south.