Global Warming.

[jumjum]

Originally Posted by stylie

...Be warned, this is not jumjum material!!!...

Like, it's fair, level-headed, rational and makes sense? I'm...I'm....crushed. *sniff*

[Yossarian]

Fuzzy Bunny, expressing opinions I agree with while throwing in amusing asides with child molesters since 2006.

[MkH^]

Originally Posted by N1GHTM4R3

THE BOTTOM line is, you can deny that global warming exists. You can think it may be real, but there is no way somebody in their right mind can say that it exists. This past weekend I read 6+ REAL science magazines, and all the growing ice in the north and south pole. ALL changing weather is just circumstance, and global warming does not exists!

So, what kind of harm does living a bit more ecologically cause to you personally? As a matter of fact, think of it as a good thing - finally a reason to change that shitty F250 to some proper European.

Also, the north-pole is melting - not the opposite. How can more ice generate if the temperature is rising? Perhaps the ice is growing in some parts, but generally the whole shit is melting. Can you provide any sort of material to back up the claim?

What I also fail to understand is the supposed hidden agenda of the people and organizations that support the climate change theory. Perhaps you could explain me this? A conspiracy made up by the hybrid-car manufacturers?

[Yossarian]

So your 6+ science mags that you just happened to read this weekend all supported your opinion fully and flew in the face of commonly accepted facts, facts that even anti-global warming people accept?

Wow, that's handy.

[Rafterman]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Bunny

"Global warming" is the stupidest term anyone ever came up with to describe a real phaenomenon. I can turn your argument around and say that the moment there's a cold spell, you have experts coming out of the woodworks yelling "SEE? NO GLOBAL WARMING. LA LA LA LA." Try "climate change." What you're missing is the fact that small changes in large climatic systems have effects far beyond their immediate local impact, as I tried to describe earlier.

A tiny tiny variation in average temperature (which we can pretty clearly agree has been the case overall, ne?) has massive massive implications for weather patterns, ocean currents, solar radiation, plant populations, geological changes (consider a small amount of glacier melt causing massive mud slides causing deforestation causing a weather pattern shift) and others.

The point is that climate is something far too complex to model accurately by either global warming proponents and opponents, because the variables and interdependencies involved in establishing a working simulation are just too difficult to understand right now. However, shit IS changing, and drastically so, and modern science quite sufficiently understands enough of the resultant local cross-effects to determine that it's not good. LA LA LA LA.

Oh I concur - I know enough about the phenomenon to understand that just because it's not hot in my town on a certain day that global warming or climate change isn't happening. Unfortunately, the world's masses seem to rely too much on anecdotal evidence - just watch the news the next time it gets hot. My point was that global warming proponents tend to use every type of weather phenomenon as "evidence". Last winter when Mexico, New York was buried under about 15 feet of snow, a local professor type claimed this was because of global warming. The same guy had previously declared that Central New York's lack of snow was also global warming. Very convenient.

I also agree that things are changing - however, what if anything can be done to combat it remains a huge question.

[stylie]

Originally Posted by jumjum

Like, it's fair, level-headed, rational and makes sense? I'm...I'm....crushed. *sniff*

Originally Posted by Yossarian

So your 6+ science mags that you just happened to read this weekend all supported your opinion fully and flew in the face of commonly accepted facts, facts that even anti-global warming people accept?

Wow, that's handy.

LMAO both of you!!! Jum, I know your library is about the size of the great wall of china!!!

[Fuzzy Bunny]

Originally Posted by N1GHTM4R3

THE BOTTOM line is, you can deny that global warming exists. You can think it may be real, but there is no way somebody in their right mind can say that it exists. This past weekend I read 6+ REAL science magazines, and all the growing ice in the north and south pole. ALL changing weather is just circumstance, and global warming does not exists!

No, you cannot deny it. Global temperature has gone up in the last century. Temperature going up = warming. Temperature going up globally = global warming.

You can also not deny that climates globally have changed, some pretty drastically, in the last 50 years. In fact, much more so than anyone reasonable would assume from normal natural cycles and variations. This is not anecdotal nor incidental evidence, but observational. As I said, even if "global warming" is a stupid term, climate change, a more accurate description, is not.

And as MkH^ said, quite reasonably, what the f*** is stopping you from making fairly minor adjustments to your lifestyle which

-WILL NOT cause you to live in caves and die at 35
-MAY WELL help slow or combat climate change
-WILL help with other things

More examples of the latter: turning off your damn lights and building energy efficient housing. Not washing your car in summer or growing rice in the California central valley. Driving smaller, more efficient cars. The first reduces power consumption and thus the need for power generation, the second reduces drain on aquifers and water ecosystems like Darling river, Mono lake or the Colorado river, the third reduces reliance on foreign oil and makes the air smell better.

The first: it's a known fact that people subscribing to the stupid urban myth that it costs more to hire someone to turn out the lights in office buildings than to leave them on, or running air conditioners full blast all the time contributed directly to massive energy shortages in California when Enron decided to pull the plug after horrible power negotiations by the CA state government, resulting in rolling brownouts, resulting in massive economic losses.

The second: It's a known fact that depleting water supplies causes droughts, which speed desertification, which heats shit up, which causes local climate change (look at CO river and Darling river water levels in the last 50 years for some concrete figures) which affects climate patterns in a larger area. And resulting in massive economic losses

The third: puts less money in the hands of the Saudis to give to people who wear funny hats and like to blow up me and you. Resulting in massive economic losses.

Even assuming we forget about warming or cooling or typhoons or melting ice caps and rising sea levels and growing saline content of HUGE TRACTS OF LAND ( . )( . ), we can agree that massive economic losses are bad, because the mean you and I have more trouble finding jobs and paying for cocaine and hookers, and because it causes large numbers of hungry Ethiopian refugees to set up camp on my front lawn. And that's bad.

Is this so complicated?

[stylie]

On the east coast, water isnt an issue... yet. But Ive spent plenty of time out west and it is THE issue. When I see people marvelling at the water fountains and green golf courses in LV Nevada I feel like punching someone. The Colorado does not even reach the ocean anymore. It simply dries up. Now why do those illegals come here again?

[caeno]

Because USA is the best country in the world. You said so... so it HAS to be true.

[stylie]

Yes I am the truth, the way and the light. Come to me.