That wont stop any killing, so why punish legal gun owners? They will just use another method. Theres thousands of examples of people/groups using other methods if guns are unavailable. Not to mention a majority of illegal gun crimes happen with illegal black-market guns. and that is something that should be heavily cracked down on, ill agree.
Lobo Walmart does sell guns, but you cant just go in and buy one presto, and walk out. All gunshops must follow the rules.
Edit: One thing i do think should happen is, a faster response to people exibiting "signs"... And especially making sure they dont have any weapons, legal or otherwise. I would like to see a law maybe, that allows police to search/seize any weapons from someone like this VT killer who was showing "signs" until cleared by a shrink.
Clearly this individual should have had some kind of checks made on him, and that does need to change.
We are walking in circles, believe me, in my first post it seemed a joke but it wasn't, there are no sociological reasons in our cultures for the massive diference in the stadistics of mass murders, John Wayne's movies aside, the only diference is the easier system to get weapons you have in NorthAmerica.
You can have thousand rules, thousand controls and thousand cops reviewing documents, but some day somebody will fail and other misfit will make the world pays his bills because he was not man enough to take the school jokes in a sportsmanlike way
Last edited by Lobo; April 18th, 2007 at 01:25 PM.
There are crazy people in Spain,for example,but that crazy people cant get a gun easily,so,1 crazy guy without a gun = 1 minus massacre. The max you can do here is get hunting shotgun licence and,for a gun,you must have been police/security personnel.
I will agree that having available guns makes it easier for shooting type rampages to happen. But remember there are millions of legal gun owners here. Its not fair to penalize that many people for the odd nut that would kill anyway using another method albiet maybe less carnage.
Edit: It will be interesting to know what the VT killers motive was, if they ever find out?..political, religious,hates yuppies? what?
Dude's cmon. You can manufacture a bomb for cheaper and with no background checks. Doing it with a gun might be sexier. But these arguments are silly. This guy did it with 2 pistols, not AK's and Kalishnikovs. As I stated in an earlier post, these things are not uniquely American.
Even Louis Pasteur, the man who knew more about the rhabia was, I guess, a total ignorant about the reproductive habits of ornithorrincus, am I wrong?
Yes, but he didn't have google.
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Seth called you ignorant (in this exact theme I team up with him, you are)
No, I'm not ignorant. You disagree with me, you think I am wrong, but I am definitely not ignorant. In fact, I am an extremely well-informed person who has put a lot of thought into my opinions. You may disagree with my conclusions, but you may not call me ignorant. Furthermore, if you insult me in a discussion which has until now been civil, you (not "you", but "one") make yourself look stupid, pissy and juvenile.
I'm sorry if this comes from a misunderstanding due to language difficulties, I realize it's not fair that these forums are in English, and I will gladly debate with my Spanish or French or German, such as the case may require. But I try to put my points forward clearly and logically, and I'm sorry if someone doesn't get that.
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The problem here is: I, I and later I (refering to you)...you own a good collection of weapons and you think is a hell of fun to use them in your local firing range, so let's screw the world, you over everything. And to justify your wills and ego you will use a good collection of excuses, way more wise and cult than the excuses of the average NRA nerd because you are cult and wise, but excuses too.
They are not excuses. This is what is called a "straw man" attack in English -- you set up a bogus conclusion that you say your opponent represents, then you tear it down, making your opponent look wrong.
In fact, my convictions about gun ownership are very strong and founded in a solid education of political philosophy and history. I believe that every free citizen should at least know how to USE a gun. I do not believe in mandatory gun ownership, I do not believe in guns for everyone, I do not believe in free guns, but I find it amazing that guns are made to look like some amazing evil when it is the people who use them for wrong who are evil. There are good reasons for normal people to own guns, and self-protection (from criminals and oppressive governments) is right up there.
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I am astonished that you have the nerve of use the european terrorism in this discussion, the ETA and IRA fellows can't get the akas in the local Wallmart, you know?, if this is a matter of count the number of corpses then we could speak about McVeigh, 11-S, the Klan and the rest of the white trash, so unfortunately americans have the same problems with terrorism like here + a bunch of nerds hearing voices into their heads and a kalashnikov in the closet, not good. The thing is to remove the second factor in the ecuation
Funny enough, ETA and the IRA don't seem to have ANY problems getting guns even with tough gang laws. Again, I don't see the difference between a man who targets civilians because he hears voices in his head, and a man who targets civilians because he believes in a political philosophy or a religion, or a man who targets civilians because they did not pay his protection money. They are all crazy and criminals, the only difference is their motivation. And if he wants to kill civilians, he will find a way to do it regardless of how illegal you make it.
And you've hit the nail right on the head -- remove the factor of a kalashnikov in a crazy man's closet. This, for me, means not giving kalashnikovs (or cars, or fertilizer, or knives) to crazy men. It does not mean taking kalashnikovs away from the rest of us.
By the way, the "wild west macho pride" thing is something that many Americans in Europe in the 1980s came to know as part of the "you Americans..." speech. It was usually delivered by a sanctimonious, ill-informed idiot (there's many of them in the US too, in case you think I'm being unfair -- many of them are in government right now, and say nasty things about France, terrorism and gays, and think the world was created 5,000 years ago.) The general content of this speech is usually something like "you Americans all think you're John Wayne, you all bla bla bla bla" (the bla bla bla part is important, because everything after it is pretty funny, like when a sad retarded child throws food all over a restaurant.)
If you don't understand this argument, then think of the "you Americans..." speech as similar to what some idiot yells about when he quotes FOX news as fact. It's almost as dumb as saying "all Americans learn everything from FOX news." Almost.
Last edited by Fuzzy Bunny; April 18th, 2007 at 02:24 PM.
We are walking in circles, believe me, in my first post it seemed a joke but it wasn't, there are no sociological reasons in our cultures for the massive diference in the stadistics of mass murders, John Wayne's movies aside, the only diference is the easier system to get weapons you have in NorthAmerica.
You can have thousand rules, thousand controls and thousand cops reviewing documents, but some day somebody will fail and other misfit will make the world pays his bills because he was not man enough to take the school jokes in a sportsmanlike way
I agree that we may need harder access to guns legally along with exponentially tougher crackdowns on illegal guns but Lobo you're being an ass-hole to somebody who was maybe, dare I say it, standing up for himself. Screw whomever constantly belittles the people around him and I think that they should feel scared. Putting guns in the hands of the sane and intelligent though not manipulative is a good thing... more psych evals maybe?
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Originally Posted by Seth_Soldier
then you're probably right, people living in american societey is perhaps more psychopathe and paranoïac (more than canada from what i can see).
Apparently more so than Canada... what a french prick... is this what Canada gets after the Regiment de la Chaudiere freed your town near Boulogne-sur-Mer...visit us if you can, please.
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy Bunny
-I do not live in the United States (somewhere you've obviously never been, as you have some very strong feelings about people who live there)
Instead of attacking others, maybe inform yourself first and your opinions wouldn't come across as so stupid, vicious, and ignorant. They are the reason why many Americans think so many Europeans are arrogant twits (not true, only some of them.)
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