Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Will you dare to compare ETA or the crazy mujahidines with your long record of bitter dishwashers sellers going nuts and killing half the neighbours just because today is today?

The funny thing is you, dear Fuzzy, are some sort of dandy commie for the standard of your average american fellow citizen but you also defend this kind of gringo nonsense about weapons at home.

We are not in middle age, dude, the Godofred de Bouillon stuff is growing old

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

The ETA is a terrorist organization while these acts of violence in the states are done by one deranged mind, maybe the states are a feeding ground for the deranged mind, or who knows. But big acts of violence in other countries around the world are often the acts of terrorists, like ETA, IRA, Hezzbollah, Al Queda, but in the U.S. it's more of a single mind. I don't know if they are comprable in any way, but each country is not without it's violent acts, just the way they come about and are commited vary.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Nope, nothing uniquely American about school shootings...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/13/newsid_2543000/2543277.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1952869.stm

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/21/1034561446759.html

http://www.citynoise.org/article/5324

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_massacre



Damn, seeing all that is making my blood run cold...

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Why do you guys assume the shooters in america are deranged maniacs and not political/religious maniacs? The uni-bomber was an anti-tech, anti-industrialization maniac. In other words most of the so called maniacs in america had reasons, they werent just deranged, frothing at the mouth lunatics.

Only real difference between N.American lunatics and the political/religious lunatics europe has. Is theres more over there, so they've grouped-up and are organized.

America has a huge problem with bullying, racism, and stigmatizing in schools, and huge differences in economic statis, thats why they have rampages in schools. imo

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Timothy McVeigh thought he was part of a militia to combat the Federal Govt.

I will compare ETA to bitter dishwashers because, frankly, in many cases they're not better than a bunch of criminal extortionists. Same with all the Italian mafia I mentioned. They're worse than just psychos, they're psycho criminals who think they kill for a good cause.

Or maybe you prefer the German trucker who was just caught as a suspect in 19 murders...he just strangled them one at a time, I guess that's better than a shooting spree.

You know why? Because I own a 1945 Remington .45 M1911, a Karabiner 31, a Langgewehr '08, a Mossberg 12", and a SIG-Sauer .45. I go target shooting with them a lot, because it's fun (I don't hunt.) I also believe, and you can call me crazy for this, that democracies inevitably take rights away from their citizens, and that an armed citizenry that makes its government afraid of taking away too many rights is a citizenry that keeps rights for longer -- that's right, I want me and my neighbors to be able to shoot at the taxman or police one day when they come to tax or arrest me for having subversive thoughts, whatever. In short, I want my government to be afraid of me, not the other way around.

I don't see why you bring Godfrey de Bouillon into this -- nobody's talking about crusades, about chopping the heads off the evil Mohammedans, whatnot. But it really really astounds me that Europeans, of all people, don't understand the importance of an educated, trained, armed citizenry. The U.S. fought a revolution over TAXES, of all things. That was more than 200 years ago. Europe? Genocide, slaughter, destruction, war war war. 60 years. Don't you think it might have been a bit different if every Polish, Norwegian, Dutch, Belgian, French or Russian peasant had a Glock or a Remington in his closet that he knew how to use?

I honestly don't understand what's so damn exotic about encouraging people to learn about guns, to know how to use them, and to make sure they know how to use them before they're allowed to buy them, but that's it. Banning the fuckers isn't going to do it. I made my girlfriend turn off CNN, because they're screaming about gun control:

-Restrictions on carrying concealed weapons? Wouldn't have worked in VA unless a cop stopped the guy.
-Background checks? Wouldn't have worked in VA if the guy had no record (many psychos don't.)
-Waiting period? Wouldn't have worked in VA if the guy was really psycho.

I'm not against any of these. In fact, I think people should be encouraged to carry sidearms in hip holsters (hey, it's not concealed.) But the bullshit about guns (and video games, and society, and any other number of irrelevant things) really gets to me. If you don't want a gun, fine, I respect that, although I still think you should at least know how to use one. But don't stop me, a reasonable, intelligent, law-abiding, responsible citizen from owning one and at least having a chance of defending myself against a criminal individual or government that breaks into my living room.

And yes, Prof. Librescu is someone whose memory we should all hold in the highest respect. He was the leadership figure in a group of younger people, and sacrificed himself to give them a chance to live. I hope I am never confronted with this kind of situation, but if I am I hope I have the bravery and elán to do what he did.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Hey beaners like guns too! My great grandpa was killed in a shootout outside of Monterrey, in a place called Los Ramones (which translates to "The Ramones" wtf punx) he did however off the guy that killed him with a 1911. I got an uncle across the border that hunts, and stateside i have another beaner friend who owns a cheap ass derringer, keep in mind the dude is 17 and he bought it as a behind the pawn shop speciall, he wants a Mosin-Nagant when he turns 18 to boot.

BTW i live in Texas. Never heard of any of them "It's the law to carry a gun." law

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

This is bullshit, really elaborated, but bullshit, mamma mia :lol:

Why?, because you just need to watch TV and understand why, and it will happen again, again and again till you forget all those old Daniel Boone tales and realize that there are impotent cuckolds, misfits with acne who can't deal bullying, fans fatale of Bonny & Clyde and all kind of freaks in every society, but if they can buy a M-16 so easy like a couple of condoms some day they could want the world pays their bills. I hope you are not in the receiving end of their vendetta because then you will say "screw my collection, because it is at home and I am here"

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

I dont favor gun control because its penalizing millions of lawabiding gun owners for the few acts of killers. That would be like banning cars because the odd nut runs people over.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Cars were not invented to kill people though. Weapons however have no other purpose but that...

Where I live it's not much of a problem, we're too poor and too fond of curses and finger lifting to buy guns lol. We did however have someone throw a F1 grenade into a crowded schoolyard. My lifelong buddy came back with a shrapnell hit that tore a hole through his backpack and books and nearly missed him. Apparently the reasons for the attack were political.
In all seriousness, guns should not belong to civilians-- they should be sold only to law enforcement or the army. But you try telling that to the CEO of Berretta or Glock.

All in all, like someone said earlier if he's on those kind of terms with life, he'll find a way to cause such a tragedy.

RIP to the victims

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

you're joking of course ... those are not islamic band with kalash as FOX news is saying ...
The fact that Sarkozy has suppressed the proximity police has cut the relation bewteen the police and the suburbs. Police are unable to control some area just because of that but it doesn't mean people have put checkpoint at the entry of the suburbs ...


Again, i hope you're joking , i thought that you were less ignorant about the difference of history/situation of europe ...


Why do you own a gun whereas your only 2 neighbourg are Canada and the other is mexico ? Owning law coming the 1776 revolution to be able to secure usa until it is a real country. Just grow up ...

Those victims are a waste, just killed by a moron but hey ! he's not considered as a terrorist so no need to discuss about guns ...

then you're probably right, people living in american societey is perhaps more psychopathe and paranoïac (more than canada from what i can see).
Too Many lives are already lost because of the terrorism(irak,algerian etc ...), but this kind of waste of life is absurd in a supposed great democraty.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Clearly these school shootings are not done by terrorists. Anybody that kills students without a reason has to be insane, no sane person could do that. This is even more evident when the shooters always kill themselves because they are trapped and don't know what to do. What were the reasons of these maniacs? A lot of maniacs have reasons, but they are so maniacal that they consititute insanity. What were charles manson reason? Or Ed Geen?

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Good point. The stories are now coming in, "He was strange" "He stalked me" "His writings were deeply distubing" I heard he may have tried arson, and he had already been committed for observation, asked to get councelling and has been suicidal.

I wonder who is more to blame, the gun seller or the University rife with political correctness and an unwillingness to be judgemental. Clearly, more should have been done to get that guy some help.

Also, I imagine that the US is technically NOT the easiest place in this world to get a gun. Legal of course. Guns are just yet another way we can hurt eachother. There is always carbombs and arson, poison and all kinds of messy ways that a disturbed psychotic individual can come up with.

The gun angle is irrelavent. Why? Its too late, too many. Ban them and now what? They suddenly go away? Once the job is underway, the only thing that would have stopped him would have been someone packing the heat.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Fuzzy, your post was erased, you can't use that kind of words, even if I love some of them, like cretin, that has a very poetic origin.

If you want to rephrase your post cleaned I will send you a copy

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Aahhhhhh So thats why I couldnt rep him for that delicious verbal beatdown...

Lets get that back up!!!

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Read his plays and tell me he wasn't a deeply disturbed individual. For one thing, judging by the quality of his writing, he had no business being in an English program. Second, he writes about molestation and abusive father-son relations, sexual abuse and dads killing sons.

This guy wasn't out there for a larger political goal, he was just fucked up and had the means to carry out one of his fucked up fantasies.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

My Point was, that a reason is a reason is a reason, and it really doesnt matter what it is. All these shooters world wide have reasons. I doubt they are just frothing at the mouth maniacs.

Who knows what this guys bitch was, but he definately had one. And he definately was targeting certain people.

You guys in europe keep implying that you can buy guns from Supermarkets and Gas-Stations in N.America? Where do you get that crap from? Its not true at all, we have stringent gun laws here. Waiting periods, police checks, etc. etc. We just havent banned them outright. You cant walk around in any urban area with a weapon here legally. We have rules on transporting weapons here. There are rules on where you can legally discharge weapons here. All hunting is licenced and regulated. Automatic weapons are prohibited here too, unless a very special permit.

We are not a bunch of gun toting rednecks over here ya know...We just have a long history with guns here. btw i have to have a gun, because i regularily have Black Bears in my backyard. And there's 150lb mountain lions in the hills where i go fishing.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Just to answer to fuzzy officialy,
I still don't understand why the french cité has to do here. If the policemen can enter in cités it is because they have deserted the place. If the proximity police have stay everthing would be different.
French policemen is raising in france we are even over usa (about 400 per 100 000 but usa is bigger and with widespace). The buget and recuitment has also raise and police men has now tazer, flashball and some other new toys.
So i still don't see the point.

You also told me that you know europe history, so you certainly know that the geographical situation is far different from europe where every country want to get access to his neighbourg ressource.
Free weapons for all have never been set-up and weapons have still be the soldier matter.
Modern war show that owning a guns only increase the gravity of the situation and raising violence

From what i listen, the guys has spend some time in psychiatric house which mean that he shouldn't have touch a weapons if the law was fair ...

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

OK, I'm sorry, I thought about it and it wasn't really worth it.

Seth_soldier, you obviously did not read my post. Nor do you want a civilized dialog.

-I do not watch FOX news
-I do not live in the United States (somewhere you've obviously never been, as you have some very strong feelings about people who live there)
-I got my information about French security from living within 10 miles of the French border for 15 years, and within 100 miles for another 5 years of my life, and visiting there regularly (maybe you recall, amazingly enough for an American, I even speak relatively fluent French.) Oh, and from a lot of conversations with French POLICE in Grenoble and Paris when I was working for Bull (look it up)
-I never implied any victim was worthless. I correctly implied that Europe has its fair share of murders and violent acts by crazies (I do not draw a difference between Timothy McVeigh, the VT guy, the Algerian Salafists, and the Madrid bombers, with the exception that some of them had political motives in addition to being crazy, evil murderers.)
-I'm a Swiss citizen, and hold an American passport as well
-I own my guns in SWITZERLAND (5 neighbors, not 2.)
-I am not afraid of any of them, I am afraid of whatever government I live under. I would be more so if I lived in the US.
-I know more about European history, politics, geography and sociology than you do, or probably ever will, from a combination of education, self-information, living there for a long long time, speaking 5 languages and extensive travel. But I doubt whether you care, as you already seem to know more about me and about Americans and America and guns and politics and whatnot than any of us ever will, as we are such ignorant FOX-propagandized fools.

Instead of attacking others, maybe inform yourself first and your opinions wouldn't come across as so stupid, vicious, and ignorant. They are the reason why many Americans think so many Europeans are arrogant twits (not true, only some of them.)

Lobo, is that satisfactory?

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

I liked your other version better!!!

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Not really satisfactory, but allowed for youngsters ears, and I will tell you why

because you are a wise and cult person and a really cult and wise person would know that we, everybody, are ignorants drops in the ocean of time....ohmmmm. Even Louis Pasteur, the man who knew more about the rhabia was, I guess, a total ignorant about the reproductive habits of ornithorrincus, am I wrong?

Seth called you ignorant (in this exact theme I team up with him, you are) and you still think that you can overshadow him with your brilliant handling of the shakespeare language in all its sarcastic power (and the others four you own)

The problem here is: I, I and later I (refering to you)...you own a good collection of weapons and you think is a hell of fun to use them in your local firing range, so let's screw the world, you over everything. And to justify your wills and ego you will use a good collection of excuses, way more wise and cult than the excuses of the average NRA nerd because you are cult and wise, but excuses too.

I am astonished that you have the nerve of use the european terrorism in this discussion, the ETA and IRA fellows can't get the akas in the local Wallmart, you know?, if this is a matter of count the number of corpses then we could speak about McVeigh, 11-S, the Klan and the rest of the white trash, so unfortunately americans have the same problems with terrorism like here + a bunch of nerds hearing voices into their heads and a kalashnikov in the closet, not good. The thing is to remove the second factor in the ecuation

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

That wont stop any killing, so why punish legal gun owners? They will just use another method. Theres thousands of examples of people/groups using other methods if guns are unavailable. Not to mention a majority of illegal gun crimes happen with illegal black-market guns. and that is something that should be heavily cracked down on, ill agree.

Lobo Walmart does sell guns, but you cant just go in and buy one presto, and walk out. All gunshops must follow the rules.

Edit: One thing i do think should happen is, a faster response to people exibiting "signs"... And especially making sure they dont have any weapons, legal or otherwise. I would like to see a law maybe, that allows police to search/seize any weapons from someone like this VT killer who was showing "signs" until cleared by a shrink.

Clearly this individual should have had some kind of checks made on him, and that does need to change.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

We are walking in circles, believe me, in my first post it seemed a joke but it wasn't, there are no sociological reasons in our cultures for the massive diference in the stadistics of mass murders, John Wayne's movies aside, the only diference is the easier system to get weapons you have in NorthAmerica.

You can have thousand rules, thousand controls and thousand cops reviewing documents, but some day somebody will fail and other misfit will make the world pays his bills because he was not man enough to take the school jokes in a sportsmanlike way

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

There are crazy people in Spain,for example,but that crazy people cant get a gun easily,so,1 crazy guy without a gun = 1 minus massacre. The max you can do here is get hunting shotgun licence and,for a gun,you must have been police/security personnel.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

So people use bombs there dont they?

I will agree that having available guns makes it easier for shooting type rampages to happen. But remember there are millions of legal gun owners here. Its not fair to penalize that many people for the odd nut that would kill anyway using another method albiet maybe less carnage.

Edit: It will be interesting to know what the VT killers motive was, if they ever find out?..political, religious,hates yuppies? what?

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Dude's cmon. You can manufacture a bomb for cheaper and with no background checks. Doing it with a gun might be sexier. But these arguments are silly. This guy did it with 2 pistols, not AK's and Kalishnikovs. As I stated in an earlier post, these things are not uniquely American.

...drivel

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Yeah whatever, and why then in Europe the mass murders happens two in a decade and no nerd is placing bombs here and there since he can't get akas?

it's ok, you want to defend your wild west epic of macho pride at all cost, good, take the heat when things go wrong

Ciao Billy ;)

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Wow I dont recall macho pride entering this at all.

And 2 a decade in Europe is simply untrue.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Yes, but he didn't have google.

No, I'm not ignorant. You disagree with me, you think I am wrong, but I am definitely not ignorant. In fact, I am an extremely well-informed person who has put a lot of thought into my opinions. You may disagree with my conclusions, but you may not call me ignorant. Furthermore, if you insult me in a discussion which has until now been civil, you (not "you", but "one") make yourself look stupid, pissy and juvenile.

I'm sorry if this comes from a misunderstanding due to language difficulties, I realize it's not fair that these forums are in English, and I will gladly debate with my Spanish or French or German, such as the case may require. But I try to put my points forward clearly and logically, and I'm sorry if someone doesn't get that.

They are not excuses. This is what is called a "straw man" attack in English -- you set up a bogus conclusion that you say your opponent represents, then you tear it down, making your opponent look wrong.

In fact, my convictions about gun ownership are very strong and founded in a solid education of political philosophy and history. I believe that every free citizen should at least know how to USE a gun. I do not believe in mandatory gun ownership, I do not believe in guns for everyone, I do not believe in free guns, but I find it amazing that guns are made to look like some amazing evil when it is the people who use them for wrong who are evil. There are good reasons for normal people to own guns, and self-protection (from criminals and oppressive governments) is right up there.

Funny enough, ETA and the IRA don't seem to have ANY problems getting guns even with tough gang laws. Again, I don't see the difference between a man who targets civilians because he hears voices in his head, and a man who targets civilians because he believes in a political philosophy or a religion, or a man who targets civilians because they did not pay his protection money. They are all crazy and criminals, the only difference is their motivation. And if he wants to kill civilians, he will find a way to do it regardless of how illegal you make it.

And you've hit the nail right on the head -- remove the factor of a kalashnikov in a crazy man's closet. This, for me, means not giving kalashnikovs (or cars, or fertilizer, or knives) to crazy men. It does not mean taking kalashnikovs away from the rest of us.

By the way, the "wild west macho pride" thing is something that many Americans in Europe in the 1980s came to know as part of the "you Americans..." speech. It was usually delivered by a sanctimonious, ill-informed idiot (there's many of them in the US too, in case you think I'm being unfair -- many of them are in government right now, and say nasty things about France, terrorism and gays, and think the world was created 5,000 years ago.) The general content of this speech is usually something like "you Americans all think you're John Wayne, you all bla bla bla bla" (the bla bla bla part is important, because everything after it is pretty funny, like when a sad retarded child throws food all over a restaurant.)

If you don't understand this argument, then think of the "you Americans..." speech as similar to what some idiot yells about when he quotes FOX news as fact. It's almost as dumb as saying "all Americans learn everything from FOX news." Almost.

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I agree that we may need harder access to guns legally along with exponentially tougher crackdowns on illegal guns but Lobo you're being an ass-hole to somebody who was maybe, dare I say it, standing up for himself. Screw whomever constantly belittles the people around him and I think that they should feel scared. Putting guns in the hands of the sane and intelligent though not manipulative is a good thing... more psych evals maybe?
Apparently more so than Canada... what a french prick... is this what Canada gets after the Regiment de la Chaudiere freed your town near Boulogne-sur-Mer...visit us if you can, please.
My feelings exactly but written better.

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I don't think he was dissing canada coca, he was saying america is more psycho then canada...

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I should add, for the benefit of those of you giving me rep for "being censored", Lobo was right to nuke my original post. I was extremely pissed off (this happens when I try to make a good argument, and someone ignorant calls me, well, ignorant.) I used a lot of inappropriate and uncalled-for language in there, which weakened my point.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Fot those fellows: Lobo doesn't censor you, he teachs you good education

Second: ignorant in my homeland is not an insult, you can call ignorant to your best friend with no duel at dawn

Third: maybe I choosed a not acurate word, you are not ignorant, you are camuflating with your brilliant retorique the esence of the question: you want to have fun with YOUR weapons because the world spins around you and period, Year 33 P.F. (Post Fuzzy), and excuse me but this is naive, selfish and fuzzycentric. There is a clear problem with the free buffet of firearms in NorthAmerica, face it, and the fact that you...likely...will never use yours against your postman, wife, neighbour's grandmother or the pets of your uncle has not interest for the discussion.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

I have weapons and i dont have them because i want to have fun with them. This isnt rooting-tooting cowboys over here ya know... :rolleyes:

I need them for hunting, self protection in the woods, target shooting, and also importantly, for the Civil Defence of my Country. Something we feel strongly about over here.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

I'm using just his words

Excuses, dude, excuses, you don't need automatic rifles to hunt those poor bears, that likely feel more fear of us (with great common sense) than oposite

In Europe they hunt too, you know?, there are also hunt weapons but not that absurd concept that every dude "has right" to have a pre-belic armory at home, that's bullshit and don't wonder why sometimes europeans nod about that particular issue...paraphrasing Asterix: these Romans are crazy

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Automatic rifles?? Nobody here's using automatic weapons on bears or on rampages either.

btw: the sterotypical gun nut with hundreds of guns is almost never the guy who goes on rampages. Usually its a guy with just one gun.

edit 2: (gun nut) is a term to describe a collector who has crazy amounts of guns of all types. Like Jay Leno has cars

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

So your local mass murders use popguns?, got it

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

This one used 2 handguns (VT killer), i cant think of any killers that used automatic rifles. nobody over here is running around with machine guns.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

http://columbine.free2host.net/weapon.html

None of those weapons are for hunting.

Listen, my father is hunter and has five or six shotguns and scoped rifles (I hate hunting, btw, like any other thing my father loves, included political ideas...yes, I guess some kind of Edipus bullshit floating around). So here people can get hunt weapons, but it is so pain in the ass that only people that really want to get them makes the effort, and that is good, mon frère, less chances to become an unwanted starring of mass media here

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I found a cool read, ok so its from gunowners.org! But some interesting points...

http://www.gunowners.org/fs0404.htm

* Twice as many children are killed playing football in school than are murdered by guns. That’s right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, there are more deaths related to high school football than guns. In a recent three year period, twice as many football players died from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc. (45), as compared with students who were murdered by firearms (22) during that same time period.6

Justice Department study:

* 3/5 of felons polled agreed that "a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun."42

* 74% of felons polled agreed that "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."43

* 57% of felons polled agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."44

* Gun-free England not such a utopia after all. According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.18 And according to a United Nations study, British citizens are more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States. The 2000 report shows that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.19

And the number one reason stylie is a gun owner is???

D. Police cannot protect—and are not required to protect—every individual

* The courts have consistently ruled that the police do not have an obligation to protect individuals, only the public in general. For example, in Warren v. D.C. the court stated "courts have without exception concluded that when a municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty only to the public at large and not to individual members of the community."45

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Yes, the bullfights lovers here also compile tons and tons and tons of documents to defend the killing of a living entity and is still a crapload of bullshit

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Thought it was an interesting read.

But on your point I think that we'd agree then. I don't want to see living entities die either. Just to keep things in perspective...

180 died so far in Iraq today.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

They arent for hunting, you are right. But they arent machine guns either.

They are a semi-auto rifle and pistol, and two illegally sawed off shot-guns. And bombs, supporting the fact wackos will find away, guns or not.

edit: I hunt and fish for food, not sport. They dont sell deer meat in the supermarket.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

I've tried to resist because it's absolutely useless in this forum, but I've broken down, at least for two points.

1) A single firearm in the trained and determined hands of any one of scores, perhaps hundreds, of persons who came within Cho's bloody ambit, and there almost certainly would have been far fewer vicitms, if any.
2) Someone bent on vengeance and racking up a big score is looking for helpless and terrified sheep, not armed men and women who have chosen not to be victims. Cho knew guns were banned on campus (guess he didn't get the word that meant him too) and knew there was little likelihood that he would come across an armed security officer while he was executing people. Do you really think Cho would have done his little stroll at any place where he knew he would come across perhaps dozens of trained citizens who would be willing to act to protect innocent life from animals like him? Robert Heinlein wasn't joking.




*We'll have to make sure we really publicize any future ban so the bad guys will know they can't have guns; surely they'll go along with a ban then, right?

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

The frenchglish must have confuzzled me now that I reread it. But still the french are far more sophisticated...

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

More sophisticated then what? French-Canadians? :)

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

I say gentlemen, take a yardstick, measure it outside and decide on a winner so the arguments can cool down.

In the mean time the gunman had made a whole slideshow of his Glock an .22, I can't think of anything more sickening at this moment

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

My thoughts on gun control are alot like my thoughts on pretty much all other aspects of modern society. Things like gun control, or right to bear arms only ever truely work when you actually pick one or the other. Getting stuck in the middle basicly means that neather system works at all. Of course, this is all in my fairytale fantasy world, where everyone does what theyre supposed to. And most people dont like that because its an awful lot like fascism (which also works in theory, but hey).

On the one hand, you have total firearm restrictions. No civilian can own a militant firearm (that is to say, a firearm designed to engage other humans, like a pistol). This means that the whole of civil protection must be placed upon police forces. This means armed officers everywhere, all the time, able to respond to any situation to protect civilians. This starts to tread reaaaaal close to bad stuff, because this system is so easily abused by the authorities. This only works if we have some kind of super, un-corruptable computer to govern us, with leigons of police robots.

On the other hand, you have total gun culture, in which every civilian owns a militant firearm for the purpose of maintaining order. In theroy, this system works a whole lot better, BUT, only if everyone (i mean fucking everyone) is well trained and knows what the hell theyre doing. Essentially, your civilians ARE your police force, so they better not all be incompetent. If your civilian populations are the ones enforcing the law, they better know what the laws are, and how to enforce them so they arnt just a society of vigilantes. So this system works when you have an intelegent and educated public as a whole (the whole population must participate in this, not just onsies and twosies), not when the general public is misinformed and terrified, as is the case with the US ("gun" to 90% of the public is an evil evil thing, which is very unfortunate).

But hey, neither of those is going to happen in the near future. Nothing works now anyways because everything is going in different directions. "United" states my ass.

On topic: I dont watch the news and am usually pretty out of the loop when it comes to current events, so I didnt even find out about this shooting until today. But regardless its always a damn shame and makes me outright pissed off when things like this happen. I think placing blame is a moot point. hindsight is 20/20. The only one that can be held responsible is the shooter. Everyone else has to learn from this event so that it doesnt repeat in the future.

Its 5 am and I think I just spent the last 30 minuets rambling on about random goobly gook. I need another person to actually carry on a discussion with...

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Wherever it would go, civilians can't and musn't be allowed to bare firearms. It's unthinkable.

Firearms that use live ammo with calibers that are meant to kill is beyond chaotic. No one can give a 100% sure psychological analysis of the person that comes to the store and buys a gun, therefore it's recless to think that you can give a firearm to a civillian and that he won't do something wrong with it-- a civillian which mind you, cannot be surveiled while in possesion of the gun.

There are several weapons made especially for selfdefense... which incapacitate the victim but not kill him (ie stun guns, net-guns etc).

There is more money put on weapons that kill than in weapons for selfdefense. And is it not the policy of weapon manufacturers to make weapons for selfdefense and not mass murder?

A Desert Eagle for instance-- with a 12.7 mm bullet-- can be bought by a civillian from what I know. Now tell me, how does a 12.7 mm not kill?

On the other hand-- if one is so paranoic-- there are special security firms that can protect you; thus, I don't see why civilians should have the right to bare firearms anywhere, not just in the US.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

I think guns can be cool, and personally I would love to own one, both for self defense and for use at the range. This however doesn’t change my stance on gun control, which in “the perfect world™” should be total. Even here in Europe I think it should remain as it is, most people that get killed in shootings here appear to be involved in the criminal world, so no loss there. Other cases are tragic, but I don’t believe that “guns for all that don’t have a sheet and are willing to wait a few weeks” is going to help that.
As for the united states.. well they are screwed basically.
Everyone that wants one, already has a gun at the moment. Able to hide behind an ancient “right” written about in their sacred constitution, the US borders are as leaky as a sieve. Illigal guns find their way inland as easily as illegal aliens, so there is no way gun control will ever work over there. At least, not until the government establishes total control.

And no, your 9mm or semi auto rifle is not going to stop that.

Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech
 

Gun bans will never happen over here, theres too many people who wouldnt support it. Some of whom have huge political clout, and the rest are the majority of voters.

The screaming about bans almost unanimously comes from European countries with bans. Personally i think its because Europeans have bans and cant have guns, and cant stand we that we can own guns.

I look at it this way,... Im the one living over here with all these gun owners around me, so its up to me whether i feel unsafe with that or not. And i dont feel unsafe, the odds that i might be a victim of something like this are pretty small.

When weighing the loss of my rights to own a firearm, vs ,the chance of a tragedy like this happening, and being a victim of it. I see the loss of my rights as the bigger risk. And many N. Americans think this way about their rights.

An example,.. Certain groups want to remove or ignore some of our rights in the interest of national security since 9/11.
The overwhelming reaction from N. Americans is?.. We would rather live with the security risk, than lose our rights and freedoms.

N. Americans entire history involves fighting and dieing for those freedoms, we arent just gonna give them up because 32 civilians got killed.