People keep saying this, but it never happens.. and untill the next shooting no-one will mention it after the first few weeks of hype. It'll happen, and it will continue to happen. It wouldnt be too much of a tragedy if the killers focussed on just the bullies.
So true. Just like I said at the very beginning it has so little to do with gun control when it comes down to the actual incident, he could have gone all medieval with knifes or gotten some sort of improvised bomb, and it's too bad that all these people got in his way while he tried to find the bullies. I guess he thought that they were just as bad as the bully since they didn't stop them. Like I said when you're that low it won't matter at all who's in your way and some people need to help especially when it was so fucking blatant but alas no one helped him apparently they probably kept calling him a g**k or ch*nk.
It this kind of stuff that needs to be dealt with, the conditions that created this killer. There isnt near enough monitoring of kids behaviour in elementary and high school, especially outside the classroom. The singling out and picking on of certain kids has to be stopped. And this crap happens in every school. I saw it in every school i ever went to.. And i went to alot of different schools.
Agreed, but what actually happens is they single out and punish (strongly, wrongly, sometimes preemptively!) kids who are seen as "risks".
It's the same basic problem as airport security in fact: they're so obsessed with not being blamed when something goes wrong (whether it's a bomb disguised as hair gel or a kid who gets ill and finds no way out but mass murder) that they slap more and more checks and restraints without either considering the basic problems, or alternate avenues of "attack".
I imagine the only thing to come out of this will be full metal detectors and searches for all campus buildings. Which also fails to address the problem but crucially takes any blame away from the administration if the next student, say, bombs his school.
We've (Americans) been instilled from the begining that our rights are "inaliable" Which means, not granted by other men, but by their creator. This is not to say that God says you can have a gun, but moreso, a man will not tell you that you cannot have one. Now obviously this is not 100% across the board correct or otherwise in our government, We just dont want the government to stick their rotten noses in our buisness. And being that I have too much government in my country as it is... I beleive in my countrymens right to bear arms. My next question is not meant to irritate anyone, Im just curious about what you think.
Would the dirtbags of this world have been able to get on with their exterminations, Hitler/Stalin etc... if their targets had a way to fight back?
Would the dirtbags of this world have been able to get on with their exterminations, Hitler/Stalin etc... if their targets had a way to fight back?
Yes.
They have trained bodies to throw against untrained ones, the end result is pretty easy to guess. Of course, you are free to believe your 9mm or m14 is going to stop the government when they come to take your land, but think what SWAT people do for a job, and what kind of people they face on a daily basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bernard Shaw
No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means.
Id agree with you that things are different today then in the 30's and 40's, in terms of equipment, kevlar and well, SWAT teams werent around back then. And of course if 10 people show up at my door today with guns I would lose. But it might only be 8 that walk out. And then they would have another few million people to do that to. Our country was built by people that knew what tyranny was. Genocide or just plain having to pay taxes to England with nothing in return. And while they had no idea what an automatic was or would be. I still think they were correct. No way the common man can beat a SWAT, scratch that, they sure could, but by Friday they'd be burned to death re: Waco TX. Aside from all the other reasons to own a gun, it'd be alot harder to get that done here then in a country with gun bans.
Its not about whats best, its about what the majority wants, period. Whats best has nothing to do with it....
Spot on. Yes, the majority has occasionally ( a libertarian-cum-paleo-conservative-cum-contrarian like me tends to think "usually" is more accurate) been wrong. But as RBS cogently recognizes, inasmuch as the US is a nation governed by formal laws and not feelings, someone's idea of "best" has nothing at all to do with the question except insofar as it relates to a debate about policy.
(Sorry about back-to-back posts, but I was called away earlier.)
I'm amazed that none of my European friends, who feel so free to comment on and provide guidance to the American polity, have been interested in pursuing the question of what would have been the one, most easily accomplished action which would have had the greatest likelihood of preventing this crime. Any guesses? Student "privacy rights" policy (Federal law comes into this too) which prevented Va. Tech from even informing Cho's parents that he was exhibiting dangerous and threatening behavior.
It's all coming out now how more than one of Cho's professors saw and were frightened by his threatening demeanor and attitude. Over 90% of the students in one of Cho's classes refused to come to class if he was allowed to be in it because of how dangerous he looked and sounded. One professor expelled him for his threats, and Cho included violent fantasies in some of his writing assignments. It was all there.
But the one thing that would almost certainly have thwarted this (calling Mom and Dad to come get their bad crazy son), the school didn't dare do, because Cho had a right to privacy don't you know. How foolish and short-sighted. Based on the mass of evidence of the danger he posed, his parents could have had him immediately hospitalized, even against his will. But privacy and the fear of lawyers slavering to get a piece of Va. Tech's deep pockets for violating Cho's precious privacy, no doubt stopped the administration from protecting the student body form a homicidal lunatic.
Looks like Va. Tech is going to get the chance to see what dozens and dozens of slavering lawyers really look like now.
And I'll be interested to see how "Ismail Ax" fits into Cho's butchery.
Its coming out now that he was picked on badly for being different during his early school life. Language barrier and so on contributed to this, but you know how cruel kids can be. It also looks like he may have targeted 2 girls from his high school, although they dont know for sure.
It this kind of stuff that needs to be dealt with, the conditions that created this killer. There isnt near enough monitoring of kids behaviour in elementary and high school, especially outside the classroom. The singling out and picking on of certain kids has to be stopped. And this crap happens in every school. I saw it in every school i ever went to.. And i went to alot of different schools.
Teasing is unfortunately a problem that is very hard to deal with, especially when it involves young children who have problems understanding that their actions can have a negative effect for the victem in the future.
Most of the time, you will see young childeren forming groups all over a class, with the groups generally targeting a weaker individual or group most of the time.
Animals tend to kill of the weak ( or different ) in nature, fortunately we humans don't go to such extreme lengths but the outcome isn't far from different either. People who tend to get teased a lot will get depresive very quickly; they can't tell anyone about it in fear for getting into more trouble by their bullies or simply because the schools don't believe the problems are that big.
Eventually every person gets stressed and stressed until he or she reaching the breaking point at which the outcome is different for every person, some people completely break down and lose all wil to have any further social contact with other people, while others will enrage and decide to let of their years build-up steam on others.
Good point Polska, and dead on jumjum. No one could have predicted this. I think (not directly because of this, but it is building) we are going to see better laws/procedures out of this. We have watched things get a little better in terms of child sexual pedators. Due to things like Megan's Law I can pinpoint the people (That are known) on a mapquest type map and how close I may live to them. It may be a widdling away type thing regarding rights, but if a guy is sick enough to view a child like that... Im not caring.
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Re: Thoughts on Virgina Tech 
"No, I do NOT want to talk about it."
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