Re: BoB Market Garden scene
 

It was actually very common during Operation Market-Garden, British tankers realy did not want to destroy civilian property until they were certain that enemy uses it's for his purposes, so this is all actaully true (and happened quite alot to annoyance of Americans), along with as Lightning pointed out that scene itself.

Re: BoB Market Garden scene
 

Massive expenditure of ammunition > civilized behavior in war.

Re: BoB Market Garden scene
 

It's very fun to read about the British excusing to house owners for having to quarter in and mash the windows. 'We are terribly orry but we have to move into your house, I hope you don't mind. Sorry" :lol: Polite though, better then "okay, get out of this house it has been commandeered by the x/y/z army!".

Re: BoB Market Garden scene
 

The problem with Market Garden was not inflexible or buffoonish British troops, although IMO the British high command was almost always inflexible and sometimes buffoonish, Monty most of all. The British troops thethousands of paratroopers of the famous British 1st Airborne, held Arnhem Bridge for four days without relief, and fought to the death rather than surrender.

The plan was a shambles, quickly thrown together with no real effort to work out the hundreds of tiny details that such a massive undertaking required. The op was rushed into production and consequently there were massive logisitical problems, with most of the airborne units dropped piecemeal and without the tools they needed to accomplish their respective missions.

But many today think the operation, with all its massive faults, could still have worked if General Horrocks and XXX Corps had shown the least bit of aggressiveness or desire to succeed instead of cautiously (some say timidly) inching to the rescue of the Paras at Arnhem. Even as late as the 4th day of the op the plan could have been successful but for an 18 hours' delay by the Guards Armoured Division at Njimegen in order to, in Horrocks' famous words, "regroup".

Duirng and after the war there was great resentment among the Paras who were at Arnhem against the Guards Armoured for having been abandoned in Arnhem. Many Paras, even to this day, felt that the Guards didn't have much stomach for a fight. Steven Ambrose tells the story of how Lt. Col. John Frost of the 1st Para Brigade's 2th Para Battalion, who had been captured at Arnhem, very late in his life overlooked the spot where the Guards Armoured Division stopped and brewed up tea instead of trying to rescue the desperate paratroopers in Arnhem. Ambrose said Frost's face grew red with rage as he yelled across to the ground that had been empty for over forty years, "Do you call that fighting?!"

On the other hand, American units involved performed excellently. The 82nd Airnborne was even hailed at the time by the commander of the British Second Army, General Dempsey, as "the greatest division in the world today". Pretty high praise.

The failure of Market Garden can be placed at the feet of the British high command, Montgomery in chief. The fault was not with the British troops.

Re: BoB Market Garden scene
 

Don't forget that the German officers on the scene and in highcommand thought it would have been possible for Operation Markget Garden to succeed if the Germans react differenly, the Allies would have kept on rolling or if the panzer divisions and reinforcements couldn't be called in as fast as they did. They concluded they were lucky to win the battle.

Also do not forget about the Betuwe, the area between Nijmegen and Arnhem. It's almost flat and from the heights North of the lower rhine you have an excellent view and firing cover. With only a few elevated dikes that would allow tanks to drive on it would be a turkey shoot for any defender since you would have an enemy with only one or two roads to take and nowhere to hide out of sight. The Dutch Royal Army had a test in it's officer training and any person suggesting to move right through the Betuwe would fail automatically since the army high command would forsee a complete and utter man slaughter. DUtch manuals and tactic guides said one should go around the Betuwe to prevent this.

Prince Bernhard (also commander in chief of the army) did tell this to Monty and the high command but they would not listen and insisted on crossin the betuwe regardless.

Free turkey shoot between Waal and Lower Rhine:
http://www.marketgarden.com/2010/UK/pics/krt6.jpg

Re: BoB Market Garden scene
 

Isn't that what the French said about the Ardennes?

*ducks*

:-)

Re: BoB Market Garden scene
 

Tshhh, it's the secret German sneaking in point, noone can notice it's value except them.

Re: BoB Market Garden scene
 

Notes the words FRENCH and ARDENNES.

This is the DUTCH about the VELUWE. :D

http://forums.filefront.com/gallery/...337Drawing.JPG

Re: BoB Market Garden scene
 

"Qucik to the left"

*seconds later*

"WERE SINKINg...lol titanic"
teh end.

Re: BoB Market Garden scene
 

Correction:

*Driver panics and goes off the dike nearly toppling the tank over*
*tank reaches underside of the dike*
Commander: ROFL bloody polder, soft grass!!11 n00b
Driver: lolol we're sinking!!1111

Germans: "Hah zhey are stuck in ze über soft grass, stupid tommies und yankies. FEUER!"

And then it was like BOOM ARGH AHHHHHHH dead allies.