Japan and Russia
 

Not posted for a long time but Heya!

I was reading alot about the Japanise in the war lately, but found nothing about the actual fighting betwen Russia and Japan in Manchuria(SP?). In a book I recently read, It says that Russia Declared war on Japan on August 9, 1945, a few days after the Hiroshima Bomb. This just sounds like Stalin is trying to grab as much as he can before the end. Now I know the Russian where fighting before this date with the Japanise from fragments of Discovery Channel docs.

Could anyone enlighten me on the whole situation or even send me to a site with decent information about it all, be it Political or military?

Thanks

Re: Japan and Russia
 

Hey Pasquill,

you're thinking of the Soviet-Japanese war of 1939. Essentially it was sort of a Russo-Japanese war of 1904 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War) part II, started over a border clash between Mongolian (a Soviet puppet state) and Japanese troops over a dispute of approx. 20 kilometeres of boundary between Manchuria/Manchukuo and Mongolia around the Khalkin-Gol (or Halhin-Go) river.

More about the decisive battle of that war at Kahlkin-Gol here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khalkin_Gol

Basically, it ended with the Japanese getting the crap beaten out of them and asking for peace.

The Soviet 1945 offensive, also known as "August Storm" was basically a Russian attempt to grab as much as they could, while they could.

Re: Japan and Russia
 

I am pretty sure that I had a relative on my Japanese side that fought in the Russo-Japanese war of 1904 but later came to America and had to burn the medals he had gotten after Pearl Harbor for fear of being thought of as a Japanese Spy.

Re: Japan and Russia
 

The Manchurian campaing was caused by a desire of Stalin to reestablish historical soviet (or rather Russian) influence on Manchuria, Korea and the Kurils and Sakhalinsk islands (wich were taken by Soviet marines). While the campaign started shortly after the nukes fell on Japan, the two events are likely not linked, since the Soviets took many months to transfer HUGE quantities of tanks, soldiers, artillery and air divisions to the far east, thus the invasion of Manchuria was a long term plan, not a attack of opportunity on a crippled foe (the US actually demanded Stalin to attack Japan, since an invasion of Japan was a likely possibility at the time soviet planners started to move troops from Europe to Siberia).

Manchuria was not undefended, in fact, Manchuria was the most heavily militarized region under Japanese control during WW2. The "Kwangtung Army", wich guarded the frontier with the USSR, was more than 1 million man strong, and was often regarded as the "elite" of the Japanese army (altho it does not say much). The Japanese first kept strong troops in Manchuria in order to invade Siberia should the European part of the USSR fall to Germany (wich almost happened in 1941). After decisive soviet victories after 1942, their role became defensive.

Manchurian territory is often harsh, mountainous, forested in some area and covered with large rivers. It is even semi-desertic in some areas, just to show how many obstacles the terrain itself would provide. Roads were also almost inexistant in many areas. It was an easy, albeit huge, territory to defend.

The soviets had kept 40 motorized and infantry divisions (approx. 500 000 men) during the war, a number of wich were sent to Moscow in 1941 (the famous Siberian troops who won the day under the command of Zhukov). These units were ill equiped, and used BT7, T26 and biplanes until 1945.

After Germany's defeat and the end of operations in Europe, Stalin was eager to send a huge number of elite, experienced, troops in the Far East. Modern tanks, such as the T34/85, JS2 and even maybe JS3 were send in massive convoys of train during many months. By August, thousands of modern tanks, wich were virtually invulnerable to everything the Japanese had, had arrived on the border. The soviet army was heavily motorized, had air support and had experienced commanders, who were used to fight the much tougher foe that Germany was.

The campaign is interesting because it allowed the soviets to practice the new combined arms operations they would use during the Cold War, based on their experience on the eastern front.

Soviet troops litteraly crushed the Japanese army, wich was used to fight in small areas and was not adapted to mobile warfare like the soviets were. The Kwangtung army also had huge problems facing soviet tanks, wich were promptly rammed by suicide planes (!!!). In fact, the Japanese commander ordered the air force to literally kamikaze itself on soviet tank columns, a tactic that failed (I read the story of a soviet veteran who fought in Manchuria, he said the DsHK on his tank was red hot from firing endlessly on japanese planes, wich funnily enough were mowed down by tank MGs (Japanese planes had paper armor after all). All in all, it was a "walk in the park" type battle.

Anyways, Soviet troops moved all the way to the center of Korea, and achieved most if not all of their strategic objectives before the war officially ended. This campaign had huge importance on the future of Asia, since Soviet controlled China fell under control of Chinese communists (allowing them to get the upper hand in their civil war) after the war, and Northern Korea became a Stalinist state.

Hope it helped ;)

Edit :

I have found casualties figures from an american source.

Japan&Manchukuo casualties : 674 000 (captured, killed and wounded)

Soviet Army casualties : 28 000 (8000 killed, 20 000 wounded)

Source :

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...t/1986/RMF.htm

Forum containing memoirs from soviet veterans who survived this campaing, interesting read :

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...ad.php?t=36090

Re: Japan and Russia
 

Damn that's unfair, mighty Soviet tanks vs. puny Jap tanks :p , must of been a slaughter.

I think along time ago, like in 2003ish, someone posted a suggestion thread about including a particular map about a skirmish between the Soviet and Japanese forces. Supposeldy it was a actual battle that occured alittle bit after the Japanese had already surrundered. The Soviets invaded a small island nearby to Japan, can't remeber if it was a part of Japan or not, and were hoping to seize the island before their allies could bring up any protests. They probably would have succeded, but due to poor landing conditions, the soviets were slow in mobalizing their armor, and the Japanese forces stationed there were able to mobilize the armor and AT guns they had and were able to keep the soviets on the beach for some time. I forgot what was written after that, but supposedly the Soviets, after being pressured by their allies, gave up and left, even though it was clear they could have easily taken the island with their superior armor and equipment. Think that was the only time Russia tried an invasion of Japan(?), if anyone can confirm that this battle existed and what it was called that'd be cool.

Edit: Went through the archieves and found the old thread
http://forums.filefront.com/showthre...ht=%22Japan%22

Re: Japan and Russia
 

I don't know how you were able to remember that, but it sounds like a good idea :nodding:

It looks like a more balanced alternative to the "Hailar" map we used to have.

Re: Japan and Russia
 

Remind me, what was Hailar again?

Re: Japan and Russia
 

If I remember it was an old map they took out ...some chinese city? Long time ago I forget. Before berlin outskirts!

Re: Japan and Russia
 

0.5 for teh win!

Re: Japan and Russia
 

Hailar is a city in north western Manchuria, were a battle between soviet and japanese forces occured. While the map's layout is blurry in my mind, I remember that the soviets had an uncap north of the map and had a lot of T34/85 and Katyushas (nothing else since FH's soviet arsenal was virtually unexistant). They were armed with big rectangular boxes named ''Svt40'' (the model was rather basic back then :p ) and No4 rifles.

Axis started with 3 flags, one of wich was on some kind of depot and the other near a factory. Agaisnt them was a number of Chi Ha (who were nothing short of useless) and Japanese soldiers equiped with panzershrecks (yes... panzershrecks :eek: ).

Anyways, the map was balanced because of the Shrecks.