Feasible working Pearl Harbor map

[Kable]

Please give this a look over before you write it off as an old topic that we've gone over and over before. I searched and didn't find any map ideas that came close to my view. That's why this post is so late at night (besides my being a night owl) cause I've been reading through threads.

I know that a Pearl Harbor map is something that we've discussed ad nauseum, but I think I've come up with a workable solution. We've all said that the only way that Pearl Harbor can work is if the attack is a surprise. Since we can't make it a real surprise, then we need to code in the suprise effect. Here's my description of the map, using known working code from FH1 that could be adapted to work in FH2 (or just make a map for FH1 if someone feels like making this map).

The map would model Ford Island, and the main Naval Base areas. Think of this as a Pacific "Battle of Britain" map. There would be four objectives for the Japanese to destroy: Ford Island Hangars, Battleship Row, Tank Farm and Repair Yard. I can provide pictures describing what I'm thinking of if need be.

The Japanese start out on their carriers (three to perhaps four to allow for a large wave of planes) which are situated some distance to the north or south. These will be static and indestructable. Guns can be made available for defense or an anti-base-camping line can be placed to keep allied planes from attacking carriers (likely the latter).

Americans have spawn points based upon each objective. They can spawn at the airfield; on the battleships; at the repair yard; and at the oil tanks. As each objective is lost they lose the spawn point. All spawn locations can be located in buildings to simulate men waking up from sleep during the attack.

Ticket ratio will be in favor of Axis since they have a bleed (at least to start) and are the attackers.

The objectives for the Japanese to destroy would be the main hangar(s) on Ford Island, one or multiple battleships on Battleship Row, multiple tanks in the Tank Farm, and cranes in the Repair Yard.

Ford Island will have two hangars and the airstrip with defensive emplacements in logical positions or even real positions if we can make a realistic map. There will also be a secondary plane bunker. P-40s will be situated in the hangars or in bunker (depending on status of hangar objectives).

Battleship Row won't be true to life, but perhaps could have two battleships in a line, static, which are the objectives. The static ships will have AA emplacements put on them that are tied to the objective so they disappear when the ship is "destroyed". We may use the PoW as a place marker if no one feels like modelling Nevada or Pennsylvania-class battleships (which is understandable).

The Tank Farm will have numerous oil drums, with the largest ones being the objectives (2 or 3 perhaps). There will be strategically placed defensive positions (.50 cal and Bofors).

Naval Repair Yard will have a dry dock with a refitted destroyer (no guns) and a couple cranes, which are the objectives. Again place strategic defenses around them.

The game will start with the Axis bleeding. This is to provide incentive for them to attack much like for the Germans to attack in BoB. Must be strong enough to make Axis want to cap the flag described below ASAP.

There is one air flag that is cappable ONLY by the Axis and uncappable by the Allies. Once Axis capture the flag Axis bleed will slow.

Now, here's the main point to make it work. At the start of the map the Allies will have NO planes or AA guns for defense. They will only have vehicles for travelling (jeeps and 1/2 ton trucks, maybe small watercraft). This is to simulate that they were completely un-prepared to defend the Harbor. Once the axis capture the flag to stop their bleed, then the allies defenses will spawn.

Each point needs a reasonable amount of air defense in terms of Bofors and .50 cal AA MGs. AA defense on battleships will be typical ship AA. Main guns won't be useable as the ships will be immobile objectives.

On Ford Island there will be 2 to 4 P-40s that spawn for air defense. They will spawn inside the hangars to provide protection from enemy airplanes and allow Allies a chance to get them airborne. Once the hangars are destroyed then only 1 P-40 will spawn in an unprotected spot to at least give Allies some possible air cover.

Once the Japanese have destroyed all objectives, then the American ticket drain will go to zero much like when the British lose all points in BoB.

I view that a round on this map would go like this:
The main Japanese assault force launches to attack the objectives. One person goes to the air flag and captures it just as the rest of the team begins their attack. This allows for the Japanese to begin their attack without fear of defenses yet also allows for them to capture the flag to slow the bleed quickly. Then the allies must make their defense while under attack, making for a tough fight. With proper air defense the Allies can protect their objectives until the Japanese lose all tickets, or the Japanese can make a strong coordinated attack to destroy all objectives and win at Pearl Harbor. It all depends on which side can put up the best fight.

I feel that a set up like this would take a lot of work, but each part has been shown to be possible according to current coding abilities on FH1 maps. This can simulate how the Americans were inable to immediately make their defense of the island, but once the attack started they were able to put up a fight. It also allows for a way the Japanese can win by destroying the objectives and not having to bleed the Americans to death through ticket drain.

[[79th] Le_Chat]

Always interesting to discuss a Pearl-Harbour map, since it is probably one of the most important event in WWII (if not the most).

I've dreamed of moding this map already in the old days of BF42.
And I have a LOT of documentation on this battle.

Main problem is a scale problem ... BF allows for mapping on 2km vs 2km (2048X2048)
This would be perfect for Ford Island alone (1/2 scale)
The bay of Pearl harbour (from Ewa beach > Waipahu > Aiea > Fort Kamahamaha is approx 12km X 12km.
So mapping the harbor is feasible but one need to cheat on the scale (1/10).

The Oahu island is would fit on a square of 60km X 70km, so if you want to allow for the correct approach of bombing raid :
>> the 7h55 from North around the West side of island (Kate coming from W then SW of Ewa and Val W then SE from Hickam) also with the attack on Wheeler.
>> the 8h54 from North around from the Est (Bellows) than coming in PH from SE
You need to mod the entire island (and then the harbour details become difficult since you need to take a 1/100 scale if you want also to position the carriers. Then the Ford island instead of being 2.5km long become 25m long ... difficult then to align the : Nevada - Arizona/Vestal - Tennessee/West_Virginia - Maryland/Oklahoma ... Neosho ... California ... Avocet ....

So what scale (Ford 1/2 , The bay 1/10 , Oahu 1/100 ????)

Coming back on your gameplay ... I do not think we can vary the drain depending on flag configuration ... to my knowldge it is "ON" or "OFF".
If you want to simulate the unpreparness of US, I suggest not to put a Jap flag, but instead to use the function for "respawn delay at start".
Just code it (1) in the objectspawntemplate.con and the area will be defenceless at the start.

My initial idea was slightly different for the US gameplay, I had (on top of the defense) the idea to try to recreate the escape attempt of "Sodberry" with the Nevada ...
Anyway if anyone feels like trying, I could give some help

Miaou

[Kable]

What's the scale limits for maps in BF2? I've never done any map making, just concepts, so I've never studied the actual limitations of the engine. But if we can make the coding of this map work I would gladly study up to help in making this.

As for scale of the map, I never said it has to be exact detail to the inch. I know the area is quite large, which couldn't be properly made. For simplicity sake, the carriers can be to the south near the mouth of the harbor (yes I know they came from the north, this is an engine limitation thing). Also, the northern shore of the harbor (where none of my objective are located) can be ommitted, focusing on the south shore of the harbor and parts or all of Ford Island. So perhaps something a little larger than the 1/10th, like 1/8, since portions of the bay can be omitted.

Also, I was unaware of the spawn delay for items, how long can you make them for? I wanted to make it dependent on the Japanese actually attacking as being a sort of catalyst for the American defense. Using the spawn delay could be easier to code, but it would place a time limit for the Axis getting in for a first attack which, if they take to long, ruins the "feel" of a surprise morning attack. But again, by needing a catalyst from the Japanese to cause defenses to spawn seems ultimately dependent upon my flag/bleed idea. If we can make a multiple bleed rate, perfect.