Tolkien invented the fantasy genre?

Uh, Homer and the "Odyssey" and the "Iliad?" The bards that invented the Arthurian mythos? The storytellers behind "Gilgamesh?" The fantasy genre has been around for centuries--millenia, even--Tolkien just happens to be one of the better storytellers of our time.

Those aren't genre books, Levi...I'm talking about Fantasy genre: Elves, Orcs, Goblins, Trolls, etc... All of these became Fantasy genre staples when Tolkien INVENTED them and they've been re-written according to his definitions countless times, since. As such, he "invented" the genre and all the conventions you find within it, to this day.

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Kevin, the erstwhile "Hi-Fi"
www.videowrestling.com

Tolkien didn't invent orcs and trolls. God did.

I don't know if Tolkien made up Elves and such...the editors kept changing "Elves" to "Elfs" in the first draft. Took them awhile to get it fixed. That sounds to me like the editors knew what Elfs were.

When did the Chronicals of Narnia books get written?

I believe C.S Lewis wrote the Narnia books in the 1950s. BTW, Elves is the plural for Elf. Elrond is an elf, not an elve.

Tolken did not invent elves, trolls, goblins, dwarves, or practically any of the races in the books. Orcs may be an original word, but it refers to dark elves which is what orcs are; and dark elves appear elsewhere in mythology. Even Hobbets are not exactly original, but refering to a race of midgets by that name probably is. I guess you could consider Tolken to be the father of the modern fantasy genre, but only one segment of it. For example I don't really see Tolken's influence in the Conan series of books and those books are considered to be fantasies.


-Mike

Whatever. Tolkien is the king, don't cloud the issue with your facts and logic! http://forums.ve3d.com/wink.gif

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Kevin, the erstwhile "Hi-Fi"
www.videowrestling.com

Well, if you want to get into a hardcore discussion about elves in Middle Earth, then orcs are not dark elves. Allow me to explain (read the Silmarillion if you want to verify all the crap I'm about to spew).

There were two major races created by the Ainur at the beginning of time (the Valar and Maiar, Valar being the major gods and Maiar being demigods. Sauron, Saruman, Gandalf, and the balrog are all Maiars). These races are the elves and the humans (dwarves were a pet project carried out in secret by one of the Valar, Aule, I believe, and then given life by Eru Iluvatar, the supreme head honcho god who created the Ainur). Anyway, when the elves first appeared it was in Middle Earth which, at the time, was in a state of eternal twilight as the sun and moon had not been created (all the light came from two trees in Valinor which bore fruit which blazed like the sun and the moon, which is the light that Feanor captured in the Silmarillions, which made them the most beautiful jewels ever, which is what the whole book is about). Now, all the Valar and Maiar lived east in the land of Valindor except Morgoth (Melkor) and Morgoth is the most powerful of the Ainur and is also the evil one. He was hanging out in Middle Earth at the time and when he saw that the Elves were there he decided to feed them lies. The other Valar then sent their messenger and told the elves to go to Valinor, and some left, but some stayed. The ones who stayed are called Moriquendi, or, in Tolkienspeak, dark elves, because they never saw the light of the trees in Valinor.

Orcs, on the other hand, are sort of like dark elves. Morgoth kidnapped a bunch of elves and did a ton of experiments on them and tortured and twisted them until he eventually got orcs.

TheMad

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The light at the end of the tunnel has been shut down due to budget cuts.

That sounds way too complicated to turn into Cliff's Notes. I'm actually looking for a new book to start in on. I've seen "Silmarillion" at my local B&N. Worth the time to plow through that behemoth? Or should I finally pick up that book on brothels I've had my eye on?

Kevo, Tolkien didn't invent all those things. Goblins, trolls, etc. have been around for a while. A long while. He just took various elements of fantasy writing that have been around for a long time, combined some of them with a heaping spoonful of his own imgination, and wrote some great books.

That's quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard. LOTR is a wonderful movie. It is not better than the greatest fantasy books ever created. Not in Jackson's wildest dreams. There's a reason they wanted to make a movie based on the books. There's a reason they couldn't even create these movies decently until now. That would be that Tolkien created an incredibly vivid, wonderful vision of fantasy that anyone with enough brain power to apreciate it will love until they die.

And by the brain power comment, I mean that anyone with any semblance of an ability to SEE in their minds what Tolkien wrote, will tell you that the movies can never touch what the books can give you.

Please, quit spouting desperately uninformed garbage and go read the ****ing books. And by read, I don't mean skim through it going 'Oh yes, here he describes that part in the movie, and here's the part where they do this in the movie'. I mean READ it. SEE it. A book this good is just as thrilling an experience as ANY movie, if you let it. Don't read it 15 minutes at a time for 3 months. Put aside a couple of weekends, and just read. If you do this, and come back here and say the movie is better... Well you'd still be wrong as ****.

As for all the negative comments about Tom Bombadil.. speak for yourself, and please stop telling people what parts of great literature they should ****ing 'skip because they won't miss any major plot points'. In case you're too daft to notice it, the books are NOT ABOUT MAJOR PLOT POINTS. That's what the movies do, and that's why they'll never be as good as the books. Tom Bombadil is as intresting and entertaining a part of the trilogy as any other. He was one of my favorite parts in fact, and I'm not alone. Don't like prancing and singing? Get over it you homophobic closet fag. Hell kevin admitted he's a biggot and he's not running around telling people to skip the fruity songs. Since you all pretend to be so god damned informed on your entertainment, you should know that the books were written for Tolkien's kids. They were intended as CHILDRENS BOOKS. You don't like the Tom Bombadil section of the book? Go read it to your kids. Oh wait, the first and last time you saw female genitalia was at your birth. Go read it to your friends kids, and when you see the smile Tolkien's rhymes bring to their faces, you'll understand it. And if their smiles don't bring a smile to YOUR face, you're a sad little man. To sum up, lay off Tom. Just because you're too thick to apreciate it, not to mention Tolkien's incredible talent with rhymes and lymerics, doesn't mean anyone else gives a ****. Keep your ignorance of things to yourself.

I've been lurking on VW for well over a year, and I hate having my first post be one like this... But what can I say, you ****ed me off bad enough that I had to post.

Blah blah blah...that took way too long to read.
I've never read a Tolkien book in my life and i don't intend to, but the films kick some serious butt. The guy invented three whole languages, ow brilliant is that?!
C.S Lewis's Narnia books are the best, happiest books i've read. I absolutely adore them.
The Harry Potter books were really good too. My favourite one is the third one, Lupin kicks ass, so they'd better not mess up the film!

Anyhoo, Gimli was definitely the highlight of the two towers and the best line would have to be "toss me."


Moi xXx