Darth Traya vs. Darth Sidious

[Darth Dracon]

Sidious would kill Kreia.

While Kreia was niether Jedi or Sith, she had power to destroy both. She could manipulate events to her needs. She could retrain Jedi to be something neither Sith or Jedi, maybe something more, maybe something less. That was her great power.

Sidious was a master politician and tactician. He learned from the mistakes of the previous "Sith Lords" and dark siders. He mastered many dark side Force abilities while masking his presence in the Force. He took Kreia's teachings into consideration when choosing his apprentices, the whole part about viewing those that follow you as disposable. They are there to serve a purpose and once that purpose is met, dispose of them The first rule of assassination states that you must kill the assassin when the job is done.

Sidious had a life time to learn how to be a Sith. Remember, he was indoctrinated and raised in the Sith way. Kreia became "Sith" after she had been a Jedi. Sidious' understanding of the nature of the Dark Side is far more reaching, far more powerful than Kreia could have ever hoped to aspire to. She would have been caught and killed by the Jedi had she tried to pull what Sidious had accomplished.

Kreia was indeed powerful. She was wise, but she was severely tainted. She wanted personal revenge for the narrowmindedness of the Jedi. Sidious was the last in a series of Sith Lords' plans to retake the galaxy and destroy the Jedi forever. It was Bane that started "THE" Rule of Two for the Sith, created an diverse and extrememly intricate and complex galactic network of spies and informants, but it was ultimately Sidious that reaped the benefits of Bane's ground work. He had everyone fooled. He had manuevered himself into the positions of power necessary to carry out the plans of the Sith. He beguiled the Republic and the Jedi. The Jedi were too late in seeing any suspicion in Palpatine.

Kreia had only one goal in mind, to destroy both the Jedi and the Sith by "killing" the Force. But her goal was selfish, motivated by feelings of betrayal by the Jedi Order and by Sion and Nihilus. Palpatine was in a much better situation with none to challenge him. He was in complete control. I would rather have his position than Kreia's.

Ultimately, Kreia's plans did not come through to fruition thanks to the Exile. Sidious' plans worked perfectly. He converted Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader, he created a war that would give him unlimited power in the Senate, he destroyed the Jedi Order and maintained power over the galaxy for a good long period of time.

He even learned, in a sense, how to cheat death by keeping his essence intact and not becoming one with the Force. Yeah, I know. The clones were inferior, but as Sidious had written, the more powerful one is with the dark side, the more it takes a toll on the user's body. In a sense, with the clones, he managed a plan that could in theory, allow him immortality.

I think that Kriea was a very powerful person. But Darth Sidious was even more powerful, still.

[The Crusader]

I have to agree with you there, Darth Dracon, but even though Darth Bane officially established the "Rule of Two", it was used far before him.

[Granyaski]

hmm i like that Darth Dracon
but still kreia/Traya did use an amazingly powerful force drain on 3 JEDI MASTERS AT ONCE
p.s:sidious would own

[Fyurii]

Originally Posted by Revan91

I have to agree with you there, Darth Dracon, but even though Darth Bane officially established the "Rule of Two", it was used far before him.

Ah, but Bane's Rule of Two was different to previous incarnations of it.

You forget the most important aspect of the version he instituted.
No more than two Sith active in the Galaxy at any one time.
One of the two shall be the Master, and the second shall be the Apprentice.

Previous versions didn't care for how many Sith there were in the Galaxy, only that there be one Apprentice learning from one Master.

Technically speaking, Sidious increased the chances of detection by the Jedi because he broke that part of Bane's Rule of Two.

[Darth Dracon]

Originally Posted by Granyaski

hmm i like that Darth Dracon
but still kreia/Traya did use an amazingly powerful force drain on 3 JEDI MASTERS AT ONCE
p.s:sidious would own

Yes, Kreia did Force Drain 3 Jedi Masters at once, but if you read Sidious' 'Dark Side Compendium', you will find that Sidious is an even more powerful being. He does mention the Jedi Civil Wars, but you must also realize that Sidious lived nearly 4000 years after her time. He had a much broader source material to learn from than she plus, he mastered many techniques that she herself could not, including the critical art of politics.

Originally Posted by Fyurii

Ah, but Bane's Rule of Two was different to previous incarnations of it.

You forget the most important aspect of the version he instituted.
No more than two Sith active in the Galaxy at any one time.
One of the two shall be the Master, and the second shall be the Apprentice.

Previous versions didn't care for how many Sith there were in the Galaxy, only that there be one Apprentice learning from one Master.

Technically speaking, Sidious increased the chances of detection by the Jedi because he broke that part of Bane's Rule of Two.

Thank you Fyurii. You are right. The Rule of Two has long been established as a Sith Tradition. Bane merely re-adopted it and modified it.

Sidious did break the Rule of Two by training an apprentice when he himslef had not yet taken his master's place yet. But extreme situations call for extreme measure and Sidious as Palpatine knew that the Republic was ripe for the taking and had to fast forward his plans.

Eventually he killed his master and took the title for himself, as is tradition. Maul was killed, Tyranus was killed and then Skywalker became a free agent. Vader was the one Sidious was waiting for. If anyone could give the Jedi the whoopin' they deserved, it was Vader.

People say that you must take step 1 to reach step 2 to reach step 3. Sometimes you can consolidate the first few steps to get to the one that needs to be gettin' to quicker, if your plans are well laid out, carried out and all variables are taken into consideration. That was Sidious' great ability.

[Ihaterednecks]

Originally Posted by Revan91

Because he had Anakin kill all the Jedi for him.

Because if you want to be the head of a large, influential body with the facade of a meek old man, you can't exactly go around slaughtering the group you praised as protectors without your public image degrading a bit.

Besides, that's what evil overlords do. Think of it this way, if you're a fabulously rich and own a mansion, would you clean your mansion on the Sun? No. You'd get your immigrant maid to do it.

[The Crusader]

Sure, but that doesn't demonstrate how strong you really are.

[Ihaterednecks]

Then that means most evil overlords aren't willing to demonstrate how strong they are. They don't need to.

[Legolas*]

yes, but you should still fight your own battles or atleast help with em
Still think Kreia would win look at my comment on <------ page two

[Ihaterednecks]

Didn't Sidious kill three practically at once too? When Kit Fisto, Windu, and two other guys ganked him? Watch episode three.

Sidious died when Vader threw because it had to or he would have killed Luke and that just can't happen. It's part of the basic structure of a movie villain.