Darth Revan versus Darth Vader

[JCarter426]

I'm not a Revan fanboy...quite the contrary.

But Vader just doesn't even come close. He had practically no experience as a Jedi, and barely any as a Sith, since he always had either Palps or Tarkin holding his leash. Oh, and I did forget to mention his astounding success of slaughtering Jedi children.

Revan, on the other hand, became a hero during the Mandalorian Wars even before falling to the dark side. As Dark Lord of the Sith he converted thousands to his cause, and the only one who could stop his Sith Empire turned out to be Revan himself.

[Metall_pingwin]

Originally Posted by Ihaterednecks

You see, they just had to make this shit up for the game to work.

Thats a terrible argument, they had to make everything on vader up for the movies to even exist.

[Fyurii]

Vader wins because he's George Lucas' favourite.

Afterall, Lucas did decide to make the entire saga all about Anakin......


That aside, Luke and Vader are about the only Force users we've seen who can use the Force to affect their surroundings without waving their arms about.
-EpV, Vader throws the contents of a room on Cloud City at Luke, without flailing his arms around like a baby having a temper tantrum.
-EPV, whilst under the tutelage of Yoda, Luke lifts up some rocks and Artoo without any hand waving..... all at the same time.
-EpVI, Luke makes Threepio appear more "god like" to the Ewoks by levitating him around their heads..... no finger snapping or limp wristed waves involved.

Revan only seems powerful and great to many, simply because he had access to a wide range of powers that were selected by players over the course of the game.
He may have been more concerned with attempting to convert as many Jedi as he could, but Revan's era predates the Rule of Two.

Because of the Rule of two, The Emperor commands Vader to hunt down and destroy all Jedi. Even mere babes in arms.
Which, for the most part, he was very successful at doing.

Oh, for those who like to use the game itself as evidence of Revan's lightsaber capabilities...... he never used more than one Saber Form..... Probably Shii Cho, as it's the most basic and earliest to be learnt of the (at that time) six Saber Forms.
Game wise, it wasn't until the Exile that more Saber Forms were actually introduced.

As for the Star Forge Vs the Death Star......
Here's how it would go (assuming that it somehow survived being destroyed, and peices of it not falling into the sun below it.)

-Star Forge launches fighters and ships.
-Death Star fires on the Star Forge.
-Star Forge goes BOOM!
-Imperial Fleet wipes out the Sith Fleet.

[JCarter426]

A. In the training cutscene in K1, The PC (

Spoiler:

Revan

) meditates while levitating him/herself, as well as various surrounding objects, mirroring what Luke does in Ep V.

2. Game mechanics are not canon.

iii. Revan was known to use Jar'Kai as well. And since game mechanics are not canon, there's no telling which or how many saber forms Revan used. (also, there were seven forms at the time of KOTOR. It's possible to learn Juyo in K2.)

d. Revan's holocron convinced Bane to establish the Rule of Two.

Those who accept the power of the dark side must also accept the challenge of holding on to it. By its very nature the dark side invites rivalry and strife. This is the greatest strength of the Sith: it culls the weak from our order. Yet this rivalry can also be our greatest weakness. The strong must be careful lest they be overwhelmed by the ambitions of those working beneath them in concert. Any master who instructs more than one apprentice in the ways of the dark side is a fool. In time, the apprentices will unite their strengths and overthrow the master. It is inevitable; axiomatic. That is why each master must have only one student.
This is also the reason there can only be one Dark Lord. The Sith must be ruled by a single leader: the very embodiment of the strength and power of the dark side. If the leader grows weak another must rise to seize the mantle. The strong rule; the weak are meant to serve. This is the way it must be.

5. Technological advancements are irrelevant.

[Fyurii]

Originally Posted by JCarter426

A. In the training cutscene in K1, The PC (

Spoiler:

Revan

) meditates while levitating him/herself, as well as various surrounding objects, mirroring what Luke does in Ep V.

2. Game mechanics are not canon.

iii. Revan was known to use Jar'Kai as well. And since game mechanics are not canon, there's no telling which or how many saber forms Revan used. (also, there were seven forms at the time of KOTOR. It's possible to learn Juyo in K2.)

d. Revan's holocron convinced Bane to establish the Rule of Two.



5. Technological advancements are irrelevant.

He may be able to meditate and levitate other objects through it, but how many other Force users don't flap their arms about to move an object?

Never have I ever said that game mechanics were canon, infact quite the opposite.
I was just shooting a hole in a previous (and all those who do) post about Revan's abilities that are only based within the confines of the game, and their use as to why he's better than anyone ever.

As far as Saber Forms used by Revan goes, see the above paragraph.
Besides which, using two Lightsabers at once does not necessarily make someone a practitioner of Jar'Kai.

The holocron he made during his brief time as a Dark Lord may have inspired Bane to institute the Rule of Two, but Revan himself did not.
He was another advocate of what Bane saw as something detrimental and highly damaging to the Sith.

Technological advancement is irrelevant???????
Okey doke, then I'll take an ICBM and use it whilst inside my reinforced bunker and use it against someone who is wrapped in furs and waving a flint headed spear.......
The Death Star can obliterate an entire planet, the Star Forge is a geo-stationary space station that draws a vast portion of its power from a sun.
Heck, sending the Sun Crusher against it would destroy it!

Revan wouldn't be able to defeat Vader.
Vader's abilities with the Force and Lighsaber far outstrip Revan's.
He wouldn't have killed so many Jedi otherwise.
(No, I'm not including times when he was backed up by a legion of troops.)

[The Crusader]

I thought that was kind of strange too. Sure the Star Forge can make an infinite fleet, but the Death Star could destroy it easily. Then again, if Revan saw this coming, he probably would have a plan to destroy the Death Star anyway. Probably the same way that the Rebels did.
Fyurii makes a good point though. A lot of people do use game mechanics as cannon. Which is what bothers me the most about "Who would win? Exile or Revan?" threads. Several people simply say, "Well, Revan can only go up to level 20 and exile to level 50!" UGH! As I said in the summary, Exile would lose to Revan hands down. It's also true that the Empire is 4000 years ahead with technology, which can turn the tide of any battle. But I believe that this battle is more than simply about technology. I can't think of any HUGE technological advancements between the two eras anyway.
By the way. Is just me, or do the lightsaber duels become more and more lame in the Star Wars Universe. I mean, Clone Wars, awesome lightsaber dueling, Episode 4, 5, and 6, meh, not so much? Also Kreia said that Tulak Hord, the greatest Sith lightsaber duelist of his time made the saber wielders of Revan's time look like mere children with toys. What if the same is the same with Revan's time vs. Vader's time?

[Mad Cat MkII]

Originally Posted by Fyurii

-Star Forge launches fighters and ships.
-Death Star fires on the Star Forge.
-Star Forge goes BOOM!
-Imperial Fleet wipes out the Sith Fleet.

thats wright and its wrong. As we all know there are long range sensors so Revan could see the death star coming and thus lunch a preemptive strike much like the rebels hiding behind the sun using it a a shield, and we all know how well the death star fares when it comes to fighters. and even if they some how fired on the station the resulting explosion would cause the star to super nova thus incinerating everything in the soler system including the death star, thus leaving its most effective weapon worthless.

[Fyurii]

Originally Posted by madcatmach2

thats wright and its wrong. As we all know there are long range sensors so Revan could see the death star coming and thus lunch a preemptive strike much like the rebels hiding behind the sun using it a a shield, and we all know how well the death star fares when it comes to fighters. and even if they some how fired on the station the resulting explosion would cause the star to super nova thus incinerating everything in the soler system including the death star, thus leaving its most effective weapon worthless.

So something in close orbit to a sun going boom would cause a supernova?
'Fraid not.

When the Star Forge was destroyed, the sun didn't go nova..... otherwise how would Bane have travelled to Rakata Prime to find Revan's holocron?

As for a preemptive strike, where would Revan hit it?
Or is Revan so powerful that his powers allow him 100% accurate precognition?

Besides, the Death Star would only need to fire with enough power to destroy the station.
Much less than involved in destroying a planet.
Reduction in power output so it can fire more often.

Fighter craft of 4000BBY didn't appear to carry shield generators or Hyperdrives, so the Empire has a distinct advantage in that respect.
The defensive and weapons technology of that era wasn't as advanced.

Bear in mind that the destruction of the Death Star (and DSII) was dependant of the intervention of those with an extremely high level of Force Sensitivity.
The First Death Star was on its own, and destroyed by Luke in his X-Wing (aided by the Force), and only because Biggs, Wedge and Han saved his sand packed butt.
The Death Star II was destroyed the Emperor lost focus over his influencing the Imperial Fleet at Endor, and was then killed by Anakin.
Without the Emperor's influence, the Imperial Fleet fell apart.

Vader would most likely use his personal TIE X1 Advanced, not to mention the entire gamut of Imperial Fighters and Anti-Fighter ships.
TIE Fighters, Interceptors, Advanced, Defenders, Gunboats, Lancer Frigates, Tartan Patrol Cruisers.....

When it comes down to it, the Empire's assembled might would wipe the forces of the Sith Empire from the Galaxy.

[Phildevil]

Sorry, but I think people tend to over-estimate the Death Star! Now what if Revan decided to surprise Vader (which I remind, don't give a sh** about strategy). He could take a ship and make it ram into the DS canons. Anyway, the Death Star was NEVER the ultimate weapon and never will.

[Mad Cat MkII]

let me just remind you that the star forge can create an unlimited amount of droid fighters to trough at the imperial fleet, sooner or later the empire is going to run out of pilots, and resources.

Originally Posted by Fyurii

Fighter craft of 4000BBY didn't appear to carry shield generators or Hyperdrives, so the Empire has a distinct advantage in that respect.
The defensive and weapons technology of that era wasn't as advanced.

the ebon hawk had both and its size is pretty comparable to a fighter. Also there was the great hyperspace war just 20 some odd years earlier