company of heroes another game that rip off money???

[sgt_socks2.0]

german tanks were better than allied tanks. thats how the germans kept an edge on the war for so long. they also later developed rockets and jets. (the jets barely saw combat.) thats why they "raped" your tanks.

also if you anyone likes this game another good one is Dawn of War, made by the same companies, they are about to come out with the 2nd expansion pack. (which doesnt need the original game)

[KillingHawk_GER]

Yes, your are right, the allies got air superriority and used it ... but we were talking about the production of tanks and supplies of the german warmachine and not about Marshal Sir Arthur Harris and how he wanted to break the will of the civilians.


This text is out of an history-book:


Die persönliche Nähe zu Adolf Hitler verschaffte Albert Speer die notwendige Autorität, als Zivilist die Kriegswirtschaft auf den totalen Krieg auszurichten. Von der Planung der Standorte von Konzentrationslagern bis zur Zentralisierung der Flugzeugproduktion zeichnete er verantwortlich. Der Bedarf an Arbeitskraft wurde in erster Linie durch Fritz Sauckel gedeckt, der dafür in mehreren Stufen Zwangsarbeiter aus allen besetzten Gebieten heranzog. Die Wochenarbeitsleistung wurde auf bis zu 70 Stunden angehoben, Frauen bis zum 50. Lebensjahr mussten sich ab 1944 registrieren lassen und für den Arbeitseinsatz bereithalten. 1945 setzten sich die Arbeiter in der Industrie aus 41 Prozent deutscher Frauen, 38 Prozent deutscher Männer und 22 Prozent "Fremdarbeitern" beiderlei Geschlechts zusammen.
Die Steigerungsraten waren trotz intensiver Luftangriffe bemerkenswert, es sind drei wichtige Phasen des Produktionsanstieges erkennbar: Der Endpunkt des ersten Anstieges ist im Juli 1942 zu finden, als die Produktionszahlen gegenüber dem Februar 1942 um über 50% gestiegen waren. Bis Dezember 1942 verharrten sie auf diesem Niveau, um dann bis zum Mai 1943 um weitere 50% zu steigen. Vom Dezember bis zum Juli 1944 erfolgte die letzte Steigerung, diesmal um etwa 45%. Im Bereich der Panzer kam es von 1941 bis 1944 unter Mitwirkung von Ferdinand Porsche auf eine Steigerung von 660 Prozent.



In a few words, it says that until 1944 Albert Speer used his friendship to Hitler and increased the workingtime and number of workeres because the british workforce was producing with 100% since the battle of Dunkirchen.



Second one tells us that the production of warmachines and supply was incresed three times...1942/50% 1943/50% and 1944/even45% (whiles the massive bombingruns happened)....... Beacause of the working of Ferdinand Porsche the tank production of 1941-1944 increased about 660% ...>>numbers are checked and correct.



MFG



KillingHawk

[Carroarmato-P40]

Originally Posted by tharulerme

Actually after the latest patches the Sherman's got VERY bad, they weren't so bad tanks at all.
A Sherman was like an average tank, it wasn't strong, but it wasn't to easy either.

The new patches make it totally unrealistic, now StuG's really blow Shermans away like it's nothing.
And StuG's weren't even strong, they weren't even tanks.

StuG's were self propelled artillery, they were more effective at longer ranger, but in close battles a Sherman wouldn't really encounter much trouble, then the Sherman would normally have an advantage over the StuG.


But now the Sherman's do nearly no damage to a StuG (No really, nearly no damage when both of them are without any upgrade though.).

Anyway, when the game comes out and the modding tools then I will try to make damage and squads more realistic.

The sherman was a shocking tank, although I will say two things about it:
1: It was the mainstay of US-Allied armoured batallions/battle groups (Much like what the Mk-IV Panzer was for the Wehrmacht).
2: It was a hellava lot superior than its predecessor, the M3 "Grant".

Now the Sherman had quite poor armour all around, and the "Firefly" aside, it had a poor gun with less than satisfactory armour piercing properties. It was low velocity and barrel of the gun was not long enough to support a higher velocity projectile (Both in terms of more propellent in the shell and a more powerful fireing mechanism). As has been mentioned, the 76mm '6-pounder' was the only decent gun the Sherman ever had, and that was due to British initiative/engineering more than anything...

There are examples where a handful of Panthers and King Tigers, fighing in small combat groups of half a dozen or so, have halted the advance of entire divisions, especially in the Bocage of Normandy and the Forests of Hurtgen and The Ardennes. One of the greatest single-handed efforts of all time was when Michael Whittman, in his Tiger I, took out 20 Shermans without even being spotted...


Now, onto the StuG. One of the greatest misconceptions with the stout lil` StuG is that it is thought as a self propelled artillery piece. This is wrong, armoured vehicles like the IS's of the Red Army and the StuG's of the Wehrmacht are better classified as "Assault Guns". As we know, French, British and US doctrine, at the time, focused on the purpose of tanks being soley infantry support units. The Germans, as we know, focused on armoured thrusts in order to acheive 'breakthrough' followed by foot, motorised and mechanised infantry as well as other fighting units in order to secure the flanks and mop-up resistance.

The Germans aknowledged the idea of infantry support, alla the StuG was born, although, it must be said, that the StuG also came about because of Germany's haemorrhaging resource stocks. Turrents for tanks were expensive and time consuming to produce, fixed turrent vehciles could be produced far cheaper, much more swiftly and also requiring far less rare materials needed for Germany's 'Wunderwaffe' (Wonder-weapons). Resources such as copper, quality steel, zinc and magnesium which were used in large amounts for the King-Tiger, Panther Mk-V, the V-Rockets and for the production of jet engines to power the Me 262 were hence saved by the full scale production of the StuG's and the Jagdpanzers/Jagdpanthers.

In a nutshell, the StuG has many properties which made it superior to people's general consensis. Firstly, having a fixed turrent allowed for a larger gun breech and hence a more potent fireing chamber/mechanism, secondly, the lack of a moving turrent allowed for more armour to be placed amoungst many sections of the vehicle, the fixed gun required concrete to be placed around the housing of the gun barrel, hence it inherently provided better protection from frontal damage and lastly, the later StuG's (The StuG IV's, anf the StuG42's), were built on the MK-IV tank chassis as opposed to the MK-III tank chassis, which was inherently, a better platform with a stronger superstructure...

Assault guns basically worked with infantry, without the moving turrent they were sturdier, more reliable and could be better modified with additional armour and other parts. Assault guns were formidable in both defense (when hidden or well protected/used in combined arms operations) and attack, they worked close with foot soldiers and provided close quarters firepower, otherwise known 'Direct fire support', as opposed to 'Indirect fire support' provided by 'Self propelled artillery', which for example's sake, would include the 'Panzerwehrfer', the 'Wespe' or the 'Hummel', hence therefore doesn't include the 'StuG', which as I've explained, is an 'Assault Gun'.

Originally Posted by Steinfaust

You're complaining about 6 Shermans getting destroyed by 2 Panthers?

Oh please, it takes 10 shermans to kill a tiger, what do you think 6 are going to do to two Panthers? The Panther was arguably the best tank of the war! (arguably cos the T-34/85 was just as good)

And on the StuG being worse then the Sherman. The StuG III was armed with a high-velocity 75mm gun that could tear a T-34 in two, let alone a sherman!

If the game says the Sherman is shit, it's pretty damn acurate. The Sherman was crap in 1vs1 with ANY German tank (Except maybe the early Pz I, II and III.) In reality, it was usually 10-12 Shermans against 1 Tiger, and only 3 of them would come out alive. Say... 6-1 on a Panther, only 3-2 would survive the confrontation. The Sherman had a LOW VELOCITY gun, meaning it was shit against tanks, but excelent against buildings (which is what the Sherman was for, taking out fortified positions.) If you want to kill German tanks, get a firefly or a wolverine.

Look above, however there just a couple of things to clear up here:

1: The StuG III wasn't mega, it was good, and was good against plain Shermans and the UK equivilent tank, like Matildas or Cruiser tanks. However, the MK-III chassis just didn't quite have the meat nor the durability, or even the modability of the MK-IV chassis, which proved to be very versatile.

2: The Panther, was is some ways, superior to the Tiger 1. The 75mm had a higher projectile velocity, although a smaller calibre, the projectile had a quicker velocity and hence had more favourable penetration properties. The Panther also adopted design ques from the Russian T34, it had sloped armour, but unlike it's primative Russian counter-part, it was sophisticated, well armoured (more then 40% more armour than the T34, making it both strong and able to deflect shots) and also had the capacity to mount a far better gun. The Panther was also lighter and had a narrower track than both Tigers, making it a harder target to hit, more agile, and by placing less stress on moving parts, inherently more reliable.

3: The T34 was good against the early German Panzers and the initial, short barreled MK-IV's. However, the later, long barreled MK-IV's ended up being pretty line-ball with even the best of the T34's, that being the T34/85 (mounted with, obviously, an 85mm gun). The T34/75 was an improvement over the initial tank, but the T34 didn't really have the meat on it, nor the versatility of the MK-IV to be truely superior, hence, no version of the T34 was even in the same league as the German Panthers, Tigers and Konigstigers.

[[F|H]Phantom]

this is the best RTS game ever it rocks no other way to put it

[Carroarmato-P40]

Or you could say that yeah...

[darkyy]

clearly the one starting the post aint that good in RTS.
cause if enemies use snipers just hide behind a wall or something with your units and send tanks first if the sniper shots at the infantery then he will be close enough to get shoot by your soldiers

and who in the God's name would EVER storm tanks from the front?
in real life realism the the rear usually is alot weaker.
the artillery is easy to take out send a bomb plane or gun the people down

as for the panther it only takes 2-3 sticky bombs on the rear and panther does almost no damage to infantery.

shermans can easely takeout stugs with using the smoke cannister use smoke or highted areas for protection.

and if you owned the 80% of the map then its almost impossible to loose as you shall never only use panzer divisions! use infantery or bunkers to take out infantery artillery to take out defencive positions or their HQ... tanks to easily rush through bunker protected places or if they are using support units with heavy machine guns, or better use the skill tree wisely.
as i have beaten normal and hard computer with only infantery and engineers

now go play and have fun

[L_E_O]

If you dont like relism download a supper unrealistic mod when they eventually release one. Also stugs were beter than shermans stugs could easily destroy russian powerful tanks like 1s-2 and t34 which had way better armor and power than sherman.

[mp0wer]

Buddy isn't so odd.. This guy is flaming about 2 panthers ripping apart his poor little sherms.. i spend time beating my wife about 57mm AT's taking down tigers in 3 hits to the front. What i would do for jagdpanther. F*** a stuG that there is a well developed tracked vehicle.

On a side note: For anyone who has ever been to Aberdeen, and seen these monolithic machines in person, understand how the germans had the edge. Just knocking on the side of a jagdtiger or even a Panther D and comparing the feel of six plus inces of steel vs the American mainstay armor. We have not made that mistake since. I personally have overwhielming respect for the men that served in our (U.S.) tanks knowing damned well they were outclassed and almost always ambused by the cats.

[Oididoi]

The only the reason the Sherman was so fucking effective was that it was produced in large quantities at a cheap price. The Americans built tens of thousands of those little fuckers because they were so cheap to build. So why not emulate that in the game?

A good balance would be to reduce the population penalty for Shermans and also reduce the cost to build the tanks.. then they would be a match for the powerful German tanks.

[sgt_socks2.0]

or have them come in pairs.