company of heroes another game that rip off money???

[Fyurii]

Originally Posted by Bys0n

Dont take this the wrong way mate but your a muppet lol

RTS is an abbreviation of Real Time STRATEGY, and you are wrong I think that the realism for the game is actually quite good, your right head on a sherman does get pwned by almost every other tank in the game but guess what, they did in WW2 aswell, The sherman was not a very good tank in comparison to its german counter parts infact it was only its sheer numbers of production and deployment which gave it any chance at all, attacking a tank from the rear was the only real way of disabling or destroying a Panzer IV or above (tiger etc) and tactics to ambush or put tanks in that postion became the allied forces only advantage, lucky for all of us by the end of the war they had got really good at it obviously... Technology wise the Axis forces were far superior to allied and the game represents that like it should all you need to do is take the S out of RTS and plan your defenses and attack.

Your infantry remark is just daft admitedly againt armor unless they are equipped they arent much use, but if your sending infantry to fight a tank u dont really understand the concept behind strengths and abilitys of units, the allied never did adopt the Japanese kamikaze tactic and they never did actually strap a bomb to Joe Average's chest and send him hurtling towards a piece of armor so what makes you think it should be possible in the game bewilders me lol.

At the end of the day if you want a game where everything is evenly balanced and a squad of german rifleman can destroy a tank by firing at it for a minute or two there is a great little beginners RTS game called command & conquer Red Alert, that might be more to your liking

For all you real strategy minded people get this game, graphics are great, detail just outright amazing and realism, well real enough. You wont be dissapointed!

Got to agree with him, and all the others who have raised the same points.
Sherman wasn't all it was crakced up to be in Hollywood films.

Germany used infantry as tank supoort, Allies used tanks as infantry support. Combining tanks and infantry effectively is key to this game, not just unit spamming. (which seems less of an advantage so far. Unfortunately I don't have the Multiplayer beta, only the Sp demo)

[L!ght str!keR]

Originally Posted by Fyurii

Germany used infantry as tank supoort, Allies used tanks as infantry support.

That's what I wrote

[Gibba]

Everything that has been said about the German tanks being better then American tanks is true. This was a reality that we had to face in WWII. But what everyone is missing is a major part of WWII. The thing you are missing is our Air Superiority late in the war. Our ability to take control of the skies aloud us to bomb the shit out their factories and their oil production. This put a limit on their ability to produce a massive amount of tanks.

Along with them not being able to produce tanks, it made it very hard for them to keep them supplied. This and the fact that we could take a 500 pound bomb and destroy a tiger, stug, and any artillary alloud us to destroy most of their tanks before they could engage our Shermans, and our Artillary.

[KillingHawk_GER]

Thats only half the truth.... fact is, that the german warmachine was in 1944/45 on its highest point. Because of decentral production lines the factories spit out PanzerIV, MP40's, STG44's, Panzerschreck's, StuG's and masses of supply .... enough to start a really dangerous offensive against the 1st and 3rd US-Army ....

but even when patton crushed the left flank of the 7th german army and stopped the last offense of the Wehrmacht the factories produced enough supplys for half a year of military resistance...

[Gibba]

Hundreds of tanks dont mean a thing when you have B-17's destroying your cities. They may have had that many tanks, and supplies but the fact of the matter is they lost to much land to fast. The Nazi Warmachine had reached its max in 1943, after that they stalled. The stalled in Russia and they stalled on their offensive in Africa. From 1943 to 1945 they were losing the war.

So Ill return your

[KillingHawk_GER]

Thats not right... beacause the american b17's, B-24s and the british lancasters bombed only cities like berlin, dresden, hamburg eg. the production of the Third Reich was nearly intact... biggest problem any time was only the lack of fuel . Many tanks and other vehicles were destroyed and left behind because they haven't got enough fuel. That's even the reason for the air superiority of the allied forces... the german Luftwaffe was after operation "Bodenplatte" (air support for the tanks at the battle of the bulge) out of fuel.

MFG

KillingHawk

[Gibba]

Where does production in the masses come from? Cities, without cities you dont have the ability to produce. Without production you lose things like clothes, food, homes. Without port cities you lose imported supplies like, oil, rubber, steal, aluminum. The places that stored these very needed supplies where one of the first places hit by air.

Im afraid I must reiterate again. Here take a look at this "quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II#European_Theatre_3"

The US, UK and Canadian air forces counter-attacked the Luftwaffe and began large-scale strategic bombing, eventually targeting major cities inside Germany. This was orchestrated by Air Chief Marshall Harris who became known as 'Bomber Harris'. Additionally Winston Churchill ordered "terror raids" intended to wipe out whole cities in one go, by incendiary devices causing firestorms, thus depriving German workers of their homes. Mass raids involving upwards of 500 to 1000 heavy bombers at a time were undertaken against airfields, industrial centers, submarine bases, rail-marshalling yards, oil depots and, in the later stages of the war, launching sites for weapons such as the V-1 missile (nicknamed 'doodlebug'), the V-2 rocket and a jet-engined plane, the Messerschmitt Me 262. The Luftwaffe was overwhelmed and had only a few operational planes left by late 1944 on the Western Front. By 1945 all major German cities were burnt-out ruins.



I think that you are underestimating the Allies Air Supperiority in the war by 10 fold. Back to what I was saying the first thing I said "Our ability to take control of the skies aloud us to bomb the shit out their factories and their oil production. This put a limit on their ability to produce a massive amount of tanks.

Along with them not being able to produce tanks, it made it very hard for them to keep them supplied."

IDC

Gibba

[KillingHawk_GER]

U know that everybody can edit these texts of wikipedia ?
I live in NRW.... the "Ruhgebiet" and i know that the production of tanks and other supplies set top marks in 1944/45 untill GeneralFeldmarshall Model declared to breakup his army and deliver the Ruhrgebiet to allied forces without risking more civilian loses... and as i said the production of weapons was dezentralized and the workers lived near the factories... 75-80% of the killed people in big cities were old men, women and children...

but what do you think about returning to the topic of this post ?

MFG

KillingHawk

[Fyurii]

At the end of the day, Germany lost, the Allies won. Nuff said.

[Gibba]

Pick up a history book its in there. BTW this is revlevent to his topic, for I am providing reasoning to why this game is as accurate as it is in recreating this war. But then again I am sharing my disappointment with the fact that this game completely disreguards the Importance of the Air and naval campaigns.

But dont get me wrong I more then love this game. It is visually beautiful and the idea of balance is amazing

Quote From a more reputable source... Since you need yet more proof

"http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Air_Power/Bombing/AP27.htm"

Despite the response of its own population to German bombing, the British Bomber Command still believed that strategic bombing was the way to defeat a nation’s capability and will to fight. In 1942, British Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris was named commander of Bomber Command and he immediately began rallying for a larger bombing force and for a more intense, aggressive campaign against Germany’s industrial capacity. He targeted industrial cities with their factories, worker housing, and anything else that might contribute to German production. Prime industries were power plants, aircraft factories, oil refineries, rubber factories, and transportation hubs. During the summer of 1942, the U.S. Army Air Forces (USAAF) arrived to assist in the effort.

The United States and Great Britain joined forces to create the Combined Bomber Offensive. The two nations had different bombing approaches. The British preferred to fly under the protection of night. Darkness made exact targeting impossible, so "area bombing"--dropping a large number of bombs within a designated area around a target--was used. The Americans, however, were extremely hesitant to participate in an action that might result in civilian casualties. Also, they possessed the Norden bombsight, which was quicker and more accurate than its predecessors, increasing safety for the bomber crew and improving the effectiveness of the bombs. With the heavy armament of the B-17 Flying Fortresses, the USAAF chose to fly during the day for "precision bombing," hitting specific targets, such as factories or transportation hubs, precisely and with minimal damage to the surrounding area.


And another quote from "http://experts.about.com/e/r/ra/RAF_Bomber_Command.htm"

Strategic bombing 1942-45

The government's chief scientific adviser, Professor Frederick Lindemann was very close to Winston Churchill, who gave him a seat in the Cabinet. In 1942, Lindemann presented a seminal paper to the Cabinet advocating the "aerial bombing of German cities by carpet bombing" in a strategic bombing campaign. His paper put forward the theory of attacking major industrial centrers in order to deliberately destroy as many homes and houses as possible. Working class homes were to be targeted because they had a higher density and fire storms were more likely. This would displace the German workforce and reduce industrial output. Lindemann's calculations showed that Bomber Command would be able to destroy the majority of German houses located in cities quite quickly. The plan was highly controversial even before it started. However it was considered an integral part of the "total war" which the German leaders had begun, and the British Cabinet thought that bombing was the only option available to directly attack Germany, since an invasion of Western Europe was years away. The Soviet Union was also demanding that the Western Allies do something to relieve pressure on the Eastern Front. The plan was accepted by the Cabinet and Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Harris was appointed Air Officer Commanding to carry out the task.

Harris decided to mount a massive raid on Cologne on May 30, 1942 by scraping together virtually every aircraft in Bomber Command that could fly — including those from advanced training units — to form a force of 1,000 aircraft. Cologne was vitually destroyed; only 300 houses in the whole city escaped damage. However, this was not an effort that could be repeated on a regular basis by the RAF in 1942.

Along with an increase in the size of the Command came a massive increase in the capability of the aircraft it was using. In 1942, the main workhorse aircraft of the later part of the war came into service. The Halifax and Lancaster made up the backbone of the Command, and had a longer range, higher speed and much greater bomb load than the earlier aircraft. The classic aircraft of the Pathfinders, the Mosquito, also made its appearance.

By 1944, Bomber Command did have a genuine operational capability to put 1,000 aircraft over a target without extraordinary efforts.The most controversial RAF raid of the war took place in the very early morning of February 14, 1945 with the bombing of the city of Dresden resulting in a lethal firestorm which killed several tens of thousands of civilians.


There you go, I have proved my point. Made my suggestions and then backed them up with reputable proof. I am happy that I won this little online arguement, because I know you will resort to that once you realised you have lost.